Fire Legion

This is the technical definition of emotion. But do you really think it's that cold and scientific, or does it have a greater, more spiritual value? Is it just a rush of chemicals or is it the work or result of a higher power?

Og

Your terminology is indicative of a slanted approach.

Reality is that it is an electrochemical process that can be understood and described scientifically.

You use terms like Just chemical. And Cold.

In fact, all of the wonder of the experience and the feeling is expressed in the chemical cascade and understanding the reality of the process need only connect you to it in a deeper manner and lead you towards a transcendent understanding of the human experience.

You use terms listed above because this description demonstrates the fact that free will is a veil pulled over reality to help regulate the human population. The experience doesn't change. But an empirical and quantitative description of it can only lead you closer to comprehending the reality of the universe. That's the point of science. A non-dogmatic approach where, through observation, you get closer to an understanding of reality.

Fire Legion

Apologies, my wording must have mislead you, for I am in fact of the opinion that it is just a chemical rush. I am slanting in the opposite direction to what you suggest, although I see how you could make such a conclusion from my post.

Agreed, but I am trying to look at the philosophy of what science is. The facts and theories presented by scientists can be observed by a third party to prove or disprove the existence of a higher power or mystical force.

PS: You type very eloquently and have a refreshingly wide vocabulary.

Og

Ahhh. Pardon my misconception. I don't like to use words like "just" when I describe things based on empirical evidence. It's a relative word and generally only relative to our own experience.

Then in reference to your original question:

Greater, spiritual value of feelings like love must be attributed to existing as chemical cascades in and of themselves as well.

Plants turn towards the sun because that's what they do. In the same way that a plant turns to the sun, humans create greater spiritual value and associate it with feelings like love. This, in the same way that turning towards the sun better feeds a plant's photosynthetic processes, feeds the human organism and drives it forward to procreate and to continue to exist.

It's a part of the beauty of nature and we're along for the ride to experience it.

Vfr

Yes, this topic of 'distinguishing between emotional and spiritual' was brought up on alt atheism. I never had time to write on it yet. Nor was I really motivated to, since almost all of my posts at that forum are responded to with humiliating and profane replies that are meant tear down the contributor instead of addressing the subject.

A good book that gets into some of this discussion is:


Amazon.com: Destructive Emotions: A Scientific Dialogue with the Dalai Lama: Books: Daniel Goleman,Dalai Lama

It is also available on book on CD


Spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into a kind and loving human.

Is all that is needed to be at peace with our emotions is to have a degree in chemistry as one scientist wrote?

"Based on discoveries made through neural mapping of the limbic system, the neurobiological explanation of human emotion is that emotion is a pleasant or unpleasant mental state organized in the limbic system of the mammalian brain. Specifically, these states are manifestations of non-verbally expressed feelings of agreement, amusement, anger, certainty, control, disagreement, disgust, disliking, embarrassment, fear, guilt, happiness, hate, interest, liking, love, sadness, shame, surprise, and uncertainty. Emotions are mammalian elaborations of vertebrate arousal patterns, in which neurochemicals (e.g., dopamine, noradrenaline, and serotonin) step-up or step-down the brain's activity level, as visible in body movements, gestures, and postures. In mammals, primates, and human beings, feelings are displayed as emotion cues."


As I wrote in: http://**********************/jne/fo....php?topic=4.0

It takes more than academic smarts to yield peace smarts. Emotions do fuel our behavior. Emotions are like the weather of the mind. Spiritual values most definitely can help calm these tempests in our head. But, developing the wrong spiritual or religious thoughts can fuel wrong behavior as well. So right thoughts support right actions and right living. These feelings of 'agreement, amusement, anger, certainty, control, disagreement, disgust, disliking, embarrassment, fear, guilt, happiness, hate, interest, liking, love, sadness, shame, surprise, and uncertainty' are all of the spiritual realm in the fact that none can be expressed materially and are all ephemeral in nature.

We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the change possible within an individual, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all exactly. So is this impossibility extended to knowing all that pertains to spiritual maters. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of the wind, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any spiritual values.

Fire Legion

That's a shame. Presuming that forum is atheist, I have run in to patronising and rude behaviour at similar atheist forums. I'd even say that to the extent to which I prefer theists- they seem more open minded to agnosticism and less arrogant. Yet our forum is polite and well run, and I've seen no serious predjudice displayed .


An interesting comment. However, if you are looking at spirituality from a specific religion's point of view, it's much easier to define where it is, as you have all the texts pointing it out.

Geshtinnanna

I believe emotions are chemical in core. And what we do with them tends to lend a human element which makes them completely irrational. Of course I have battled a hard fight with bi polar so I am quite familiar with how the chemicals work in my brain

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mister_lister

I think and believe that emotions are completely chemical. They can be brought about by stimuli and are translated into a physiological response. The term "mystical" implies "mystery" and science has sufficiently lifted the veil in to the secret process of emotion, therefore it in no longer a mystery (perhaps only to the ignorant, those that have not seen the evidence).

As the poster before me illustrated, we know that Bi-Polar people have a disorder of emotions, which can be corrected with medication (chemicals). Therefore emotion is not a spiritual (of the spirit) phenomena or introducing a chemical would have no effect.

The same can be said for other mental illness, such as schizophrenia, which is my disorder. With schizophrenia symptoms manifest which mimick sensory input which can elicit an emotional response. With medication I experience no symptoms, so a furhter unveiling of the mind is made.

More and more, as disorders of the brain are unraveled, the mystery of the brain itself and our experience is unraveled. The very thought of "god" is chemically based object, stored in the tissue of the brain. Damage can be done to the brain where that thought is essentially "erased". There are people with brain damage that have to relearn vocabulary and the very definitions of words.

The idea of a spirit or anything spiritual by definition, is becoming more of a fantastic idea than anything plausable. As we uncover mystery, some ideas and definitions of words change or disappear entirely.

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"The trouble is not with what we don't know, it is with what we think we know that just ain't so". ~ Mark Twain

Number 6

now THAT'S interesting,
so now every personality will talk and yammer about itself incessantly?
dear god, even one of you is more than enough.

Geshtinnanna

Can you shut the **** up for once and your incessant man crush? Dear lord. Move on

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