LadyLuck

Hey that's good, but if you back up far enough and look at it you can tell it isn't moving. ^^ tehe At least i can

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=^.^=

Og

Heh.. there's actually more than 5 senses (really and physiologically). There's a sense of temperature which is totally different than other senses. The molecules in your neurons that respond to temperature in warm regions respond to capcasin and the cold sensor molecules also respond to menthol. So, when you eat a pepper or pop a certs breath mint, you are actually feeling something indistinguishable from hot or cold as far as your sense are concerned

In addition, there's a sense of equilibrium based on sensors in your inner ear.

And a sense called proprioception which involves you knowing where your body parts are even if your eyes are closed or you can't see them somehow. There are sensors that actively send information to your brain about the position of your body parts.

There's a lot of higher order sense concepts too like object oriented perception of things like chairs (sometimes this is referred to categorical perception).

Bottom line is, don't trust anything as mick so eloquently demonstrates. Best answer is "I don't know" and this image so beautifully demonstrates why. I'm fairly certain that that wasn't mick's point, but hey... No one can really always intentionally be 100% divergent from the truth

Og

You can also look at that image out of the side of your eye and you won't be fooled either. The photoreceptors there aren't susceptible to color changes (only intensity) and are designed to detect motion. Mainly your peripheral vision detects "changes" in patterns. Most of the peripheral photo-processing neurons in your eyes are designed to do the mathematical equivalent of a derivative.

This would be evolutionarily positive because it would allow us to detect moving predators or other threats easily in our periphery at which point we could turn our head and focus our color and high definition sensors on the target.

Images like this one that mick posted seem to me to be perfect demonstrations of how our various senses have been molded to fit our environment and are in no way perfect. Particularly vision which was one of darwin's big hang-ups (or so they say).

120 million photo-sensitive cells in each of your eyes.. Math is done on them there and the data is compressed and correlated down to about 10 million different signals that project back to your brain through your optic nerve (in each eye).

This is a very cool neural system.

Gringo

Agnostics are pussies...agnosticism seems like a very reasonable "transition" position. But it doesn't seem like anyone should stay in that position for long. In fact, the most likely way that someone would remain agnostic for a long period of time (e.g. more than a year) would be if that person really didn't believe in god, but was too scared of death / too scared of social rejection / too much of a pussy to admit it.

When you come down to it, there is almost nothing more important in life than the question of "is there a god", and "if there is a god, what is it like"? After all, if there's a god there might be a heaven and hell - and ANY measure of utility says that an infinitely long infinitely good life rules, and an infinitely long infinitely bad life sucks. If there is a god, he might send you to hell because you don't believe in him, and so you need to understand god in order to have an eternity of bliss.

So who in their right mind would say "hmm, I don't know if god exists or not. I'll just go on about my life until I figure it out later." HELL no! You say "holy crap, this is a really important question, and I need to sit down and think about it NOW!

I was an agnostic for a few months. But during those months I was actively thinking about the whole "god" issue. The issue is actually pretty cut-and-dry if you sit down and think about it objectively. Thus, I transitioned quickly and easily into full-blown atheism. Anyone who has been agnostic for any extended period of time should consider growing a pair and doing the same."


Isn't it interesting that Religion is the ONE area where otherwise seemingly intelligent people can act in a way that in any OTHER area of their lives, they wouldn't dream of.

For example, If Dad and son were out fishing and on the way to the lake, if son found a bottle of liquid with no label on it, and he wanted to drink it, do you think Dad would let him?

I don't think so. He would use caution and REASON and realize that there MIGHT be something in there harmful for his son, EVEN IF son protests and assures dad that it is perfectly harmless.

I went to the emergency room on New Years Night. Do you think the doctor came in and immediately told me what was wrong with me withOUT any tests?

No

Why did he run tests on me. He could see I was sick. Why wasn't that enough to go ahead and diagnose my problem.

Well, first of all, he KNEW he could be wrong.

Secondly, he knew he might be PROVEN wrong. So he used caution.

But when it comes to Religion, NO one can be PROVEN wrong so EVERYONE is adamant

The fundamentalist Christian just KNOWS there is a firey hell where everyone except Christians are going.

The Fundamentalist Muslim just KNOWS there is only ONE god and his name is ALLAH and everyone who does not bow to him is an infidel.

The atheist KNOWS that there is NOT a god and everyone who believes in him is an illogical fool.

To me,

I am an agnostic and I have enough BALLS to admit it.

I believe that just like I would not allow my son to drink something that I was not sure about,

Just like the doctor was not a spineless "pussy" because he used caution in treating me,

He had enough common sense to say he did not know - that's why test were needed,

I am not going to be adamant about things I have NO PROOF for.

When one INSISTS that there is NO god, he is NO different than one who INSISTS there IS a god.

It's those of us who say, well I don't know, that, I believe, are the sensible and wise ones.

Gringo

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Og

Heh.. man you certainly are full of anger.

Neither has proof for any of their assertions.. Nor disproof. A claim in either direction is useless and misses the point of religion/spirituality entirely. The question is immune to proof or disproof. It's designed as such.

Heh.. I'm sorry you're trapped in the world where christians force you to act so angrily at theology because of their bullheaded literal interpretation. It's not the only paradigm out there.

Namaste brother/sister/whatever.

Gringo

WHAT






are you talking about?


What anger?

I am not upset at all.

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MickinEngland

Our 5 senses are enough for survival on this material planet, we don't need more ;)

Crystal17

"I am agnostic, although I lean about 85% that God is created by man.

But I also have about 15% doubt in me that says I may be wrong."


I would classify you as agnostic because you are not totally certain in your own mind that there is no god. I would also say that if there is a god, she obviously doesn't make herself known or have anything to do with us mortals, so it really doesn't matter whether she exists or not.

Agnostics are not pussies. We CHOOSE to have an open mind. If god appeared right now and was able to prove that she indeed was god, I would beleive. ;-) If not, I still don't have evidence one way or an other. Besides, people have spent lifetimes trying to come up with the answer on that one. What did they find out? Nothing! There is no evidence one way or another. Atheists just want to say that everyone else is wrong, but they have no more evidence than Christians. That isn't right either.

Og

Theists/atheists are the cowards.

They can't live with unknown. They can't live without an answer. So they make one up and pull it over their eyes because they're still afraid of the dark.

True strength comes from being able to say "I don't know" when that is the truth. There's no virtue in having a position just to have it. And in any case, reducing it to a question of belief/faith in concrete ideas (idols) misses the point entirely.

Sahasrara

}SoC{Sumguy

only some. did it occur to you that some of us actually beleive?

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"And now you've seen his face,
and you know that there's a place
in the sun, for all that you've done.
For you and your children.
You always wanted to beleive.
Just ask and you'll receive,
beyond your wildest dreams.
And you already know how this will end...."