Agnostic Forums
  Show Threads  Show Posts

Agnostic Forums - Discuss Agnosticism

Go Back   Agnostic Forums > Theism -> Agnosticism - > Atheism > General Religion

General Religion Discussion about any religious topic. Example, other religious scriptures, Satanism, philosophy etc.


ThirtySpace.com
Want These Ads To Go Away? Become A Premium Member. Click here to see how...

Reply
Bookmark this thread at ThreadSoup: BookMark This Thread On ThreadSoup.com! Add it!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-15-2006, 12:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
The An-Jel
Anti-Hero

 
The An-Jel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,383
The An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud of
Default Agnostic Christians

Agnostic Christian
While the separate terms agnostic and Christian have a well-defined context in Western history, philosophy, and theology, the concept of “Agnostic Christian” is a relatively new idea. This expression juxtaposes two seemingly contradictory ideas, but with an ironic force that is intended to focus attention, in a critically postmodern way, on each term in a play of meaning and thought.

Agnostic Christian, as a concept, conjures up the ideas of doubt and unsettledness and positions them against a context of faith from within a Christian framework. Even though a recent Internet search of “Agnostic Christian” turned up over 3.3 million hits, a search for a final or fixed definition was not immediately forthcoming. This unsettledness of meaning speaks to the “nature” and power of this term. As such, this entry is not meant to finally define the idea of an Agnostic Christian, but to open up a consideration of its rhetorical power and begin a conversation on the concept.

Having said that, however, some basic observations still can be made about the term’s use and the positions of those using it – or its variation, “Christian Agnostic.” Recent research on the Internet shows some trends. People calling themselves Agnostic Christians or using the expression to describe a faith position share some common sentiments. While this list is not exhaustive, some or all items may apply to those using the term Agnostic Christian, or to thinkers sharing similar insights:

1. A reaction against many claims by religious fundamentalists regarding knowledge of a fixed or final “Truth.”

2. A belief that religious values and human experience should inform each other and progress together. The Agnostic Christian thinker is wary of the strict fundamentalists who force experience into an ideology or system – who force “life” to fit theology.

3. A respect for and tolerance of a variety of faith traditions and philosophical positions.

4. A suspension of belief that the human mind can know, beyond doubt, that there is One final and fixed Truth in the universe. This position is independent of whether a fixed Truth exists or not, but rather a comment on our ability to know if such a truth exists beyond doubt. A more formal expression is “epistemological humility.”

5. A general liberal position on social, cultural, political, and religious issues.

6. A sincere belief that the Christian tradition has value and benefit, but that a critical look at the history of Christianity is needed to move forward. The violence and gray areas of the faith should not be glossed over and various traditions within Christianity need to admit past sins and myriad transgressions, such as abuses during the Crusades and Reformation.

7. A position that truth, or God, is in process and not fixed in time. That is, truth is not settled, like an eternal law, but progresses as our consciousnesses progress. Truth, or God, grows with the cosmos.

8. A focus on Christ’s humanity, and all this implies, is important. Some traditions focus more on salvation theology and the Godliness of Christ, but the Agnostic Christian will talk a lot about the humanity of Christ.

9. A desire to reconnect with Christ’s known teachings about compassion and love while doubting a faith in fixed dogma.

10. A respect for the power of doubt and its proper place in one’s personal faith journey.

Some Agnostic Christians are more extreme, or aggressively and philosophically critical than others. Along with the above seven positions, a few others could be added that mark off the more extreme cases:

A. A belief that there is a difference between “God” and God. That is, that what we say about the God of literature/the Bible could be quite different than what we may or may not be able to say about a transcendent Being, if one exists. While not using the term Agnostic Christian, Jack Miles’ scholarship in God: A Biography and Christ: A Crisis in the Life of God, is helpful here. Miles reads the Bible as literature and God and Jesus as characters therein. This critical consideration is quite apart from whether or not a transcendent Being exists objectively or as a matter of faith.

B. A belief that the God of the Bible is perhaps fallen, or imperfect, and, via Christ, knows sin in a most existential way – from the inside out.

C. A postmodern sense of “carnival,” or extreme play, about what is traditionally thought of as Christianity. The use of critical irony is a mark of this type of Agnostic Christian.

In closing, the postmodern aspects of the concept of an Agnostic Christian are the ironic and edgy play of the terms themselves, the critical take on whether we can finally know Truth, and a respect for a variety of traditions and faith positions.

See also Wikipedia’s entry on “agnostic theism.”

Agnostic christian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I used Wikipedia... shoot me if any true scientist of knowledge desires. It was quicker...

I was confronted about this play on words... I don't like Christians in an Agnostic forum "trying to convert" doubters. On the other hand if an unstable Agnostic or Aetheist there be then they shouldn't be labeling themselves as such until they confront ABSOLUTELY their inner turmoil about the mindphuk on the subject they received as a child.

Christians if you don't like Jesus in an absolute form stay away from church chalked full of "straight arrows" ready to take your money and if you are a free thinking Christian that believes that Jesus and God are the "straight shooters" call yourself something other than Agnostic.

While I am not offended I think most true Agnostics do believe that if you are in a direct religious or lack of a religious (Atheism) platform. You should have faith in your belief and leave those more happy in looking for the real Truth of the Universe ( the Agnostic if they are so inclined) and move on. Agnosticism is a Philosophy not a Belief. Kinda like Jews are a religion and NOT a race!

What do ya think? Anything to detract or add?
__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Last edited by The An-Jel : 09-09-2007 at 05:17 PM.
The An-Jel is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 02:47 AM   #2 (permalink)
Jeff Cross
Junior Member
 
Jeff Cross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Jeff Cross is on a distinguished road
Default Wesleyan Quadrilateral

I guess my definition would be shorter: A Christian who can shrug his shoulders and say, "I don't know."
I'm a member of the Methodist church. Wesley, the founder, came up with the "Wesleyan Quadrilateral": four sources from which each Christian's beliefs necessarily spring.
Scripture
Tradition
Experience
Reason
I like that, because they're not telling me I have to check my brains in at the door. And you're not going to convert anyone, if their own reason and experience bar that, by beating them over the head with a Bible.
Some of the definition fits me, some...not-so-much. Haha I can't even conform to the non-conformists!
Jeff Cross is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 03:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
The An-Jel
Anti-Hero

 
The An-Jel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,383
The An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud of
Default

Wow that got off topic. Interesting take though Jeff. Aside from the ultimate converting religious folk, what do the more interesting Christians think?
__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment
The An-Jel is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2006, 11:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
George
Administrator

 
George's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 457
George is on a distinguished road
Default

Interesting. I really like the point you made about how some religions basically force you to "check your brains at the door".

Don't dare think for yourself
__________________
What's that? You haven't Gone Green yet? What are you waiting for?
Got a question? Need help figuring out how something works here?
Send me a Private Message.
George is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2006, 12:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
PhoenixReborn13
Member
 
PhoenixReborn13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 60
PhoenixReborn13 is on a distinguished road
Default

I have got to say, that is one of the more interesting things I have read. I guess this kind of works with what we were discussing, so far as what it means to be a Christian; how one can be a Christian and not adhere to any specific dogma. However, not many Christians seem to possess the open mind that is presented in the referenced article. While you may have some problems with people who are 'on the fence' in their identification as 'agnostic' or 'Christian', I feel that the term presented as 'agnostic Christian' fits a great many people who could otherwise be presumed to be 'religious' Christians. I guess it kind of parallels Buddhism. There are people who identify as Buddhist and go to temple, worship, etc. There are people, too, who identify as Buddhist, but for them it is more of the philosophical identification than of the religion. Philosophical Christians? Naaah...that's not happening...

The differentiating of these different types of Christians let me know who has the open mind, and who is a waste of time
PhoenixReborn13 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2006, 09:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
Lyricb
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 53
Lyricb is on a distinguished road
Default

Well this is certainly an interesting spin on agnosticism that I have never heard of. I can see how it would suit some folks' beliefs.
Lyricb is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2006, 11:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
LadyLuck
Senior Member
 
LadyLuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Big Texas
Posts: 175
LadyLuck is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to LadyLuck
Default

Wow I never thought of the possibility of 'agnostic christians' before, very interesting and very cool ^^
__________________
=^.^=
LadyLuck is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 06:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
epicureious
Member
 
epicureious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 41
epicureious is on a distinguished road
Default Jews are too born into their families (race) Holy Roman Empire tried to emulate

Quote:
Originally Posted by The An-Jel View Post
Agnostic Christian
Kinda like Jews are a religion and NOT a race!

What do ya think? Anything to detract or add?
Lots in your post An-Jel with which I agree .This last caught my eye though, namely that Jewishness is not a race. Not a race (there are many genotypes assimilated in the diaspora), but certainly a people.

The reason this makes me nervous is I just ran across some Christian Identity (Neo-Nazis) who call themsleves "real" Israel. You may have been referring to this and essentially challenging their idea, or maybe unknowingly agreeing with their underlying premise that Jews don't exist. They push a brand of Christianity sometimes referred to as British Israelism and get into heated debates on how to spell Hebrew words in English. (JC with a Y or a J--and call God YahYah or some such thing). They claim they are the real Jews, while descendants from the ones who actually wrote lived and developed Scriptures are something else.

It makes me uneasy when people of the majority religious persuasion claim that another people don't exist. Jews are a people with a religion. Italians are not a race, or a religion, but there is an Italian culture and lineage -- a nation-state. There is a religion most would immediately connect to Italy -- Catholicism.

Most nation-states don't have religions connected with them these days, but many have in the past in order to control their populations (e.g. Holy Roman Empire). They borrowed heavily from the Jewish people.
epicureious is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 01:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
pseudonous
Senior Member
 
pseudonous's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 364
pseudonous is on a distinguished road
Default

Very interesting. I have been thinking about the term agnostic theist since I first heard it about a month ago. Like you, I looked it up on wikipedia. I find it interesting that there are no links to philosophers in the article. To me, it seems to be a pop culture idea spread through wikipedia rather than a serious position. In my opinion, the idea of an agnostic theist is nothing more than attempt to comandeer the word agnostic. As i see it, saying your an agnositic theist is the same as saying your not a gnostic. The words are already present in the english language to express this idea. It is just an attempt by theists to maintain their double standard of admitting they do not know and in the same breath claiming they do know.
pseudonous is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2007, 11:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Gettin' In Tune
Senior Member
 
Gettin' In Tune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NM
Posts: 484
Gettin' In Tune is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The An-Jel View Post
Kinda like Jews are a religion and NOT a race!


This is difficult to grasp and trust me since I am one to know. I was baptized as a catholic, even though I never went to church. It was my mother's religion.

My father and his family are Jewish. I would to say non-practicing Jews, but my dad is an atheist. If you ask him "what he is?". He'll say he is Jewish. He is not Russian and Lithuanian. I am not even sure if my grandparents believe in 'god', but the are non-practicing Jews. My grandparents are not Russian or Lithuanian, but Jewish.

I have Jewish cousins that practice Judeo rituals. I have had laughs with my father over these rituals, but he is still Jewish. It is a race. Jews are also a people and not a religion.

My father even thinks I am Jewish I get kick a out of it. I tell him according to the Judeo religion I would have to be born to a Jewish mother or Bar Mitzvah. I was neither.

There is a Judeo religion. The Jewish people are a people without a land or without a land for a long time. Being Jewish is just as much as a nationality as a religion.

Last edited by Gettin' In Tune : 07-18-2007 at 09:31 PM.
Gettin' In Tune is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Religious Oppression by Christians. SithLord Christianity 66 07-18-2007 11:25 PM
A Question for the Christians and Other Theists Faydwyn The Water Cooler 13 12-20-2006 04:45 AM


» User Settings
User Name:

Password:

Remember Me?
» Quick Register
User Name:


Password:


Confirm Password


Email


Confirm Email


Check to Agree with forum rules

» Sponsored Links

» Links We Love
HD Wallpapers

PC Tech Forums

Myspace Layouts

Coupons Codes & Bargains

Deaths In Iraq


Take AF With You
Feed Icon   RSS  RSS-1   RSS-2 XML  JS


» Sponsored Links


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0
Copyright © 2006 - 2007 The Jibber Network. All Rights Reserved.