An open letter to Christian members - Page 5

Lanya · 05-14-2008, 06:56 AM

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Originally Posted by debdodd

you are both correct that people can change ...... I have my doubts about either of them ..... perhaps because I am required to have patience all day long with my patients and when I get home I have less .... not a very good excuse but it's all I've got

From my experiences, I came to assume long-term patience comes from taking on the mindset of acceptance that _____ has the right to be however (s)he is, regardless of how it hurts (emotionally, not physically).

Then it turns out not to hurt, anyway. That it was only the lack of acceptance that caused the [emotional] pain.

Just an idea.

Abel · 05-14-2008, 07:20 AM

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Originally Posted by WilliamBlue

Abel, is your God omniscience and omnipotent?

Yes He is.

AB517 · 05-14-2008, 07:09 PM

to be atheist means you know more than me
Carl Sagan

GX · 05-17-2008, 10:43 AM

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Originally Posted by AB517

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Originally Posted by GX

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Originally Posted by Abel

There is one other correction I need to make. Jesus never said you would do greater things than He. You are a non-believer. Jesus' promise was only for those who believe in Him: John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

I AM a believer of Jesus and his teachings. I just refuse to believe the lies and perversions of his teachings and of the nature of God that organized religion has foisted upon mankind that you happen to believe in. Including the lie that you need to make Jesus your god in order to do the things he did. Even the stuff written in the bible is highly suspect as evidenced by erhmans fine book "misquoting jesus".

I do not foresee having the time to answer you fully until the weekend except for this little tidbit. In the meantime, I see everyone else is doing just fine clobbering your preposterous statements to smithereens.

His teachings do not lie.
This would be like calling your beliefs lies. I may not agree with everything that other people said he said, but I do not believe he (or even you and I) is intentionally lying.

I wasnt referring to the teachings of Jesus, but to the lies and perversions perpertrated by religious christianity of original sin, an angry god, hell and the devil. I stand by my original statement.

GX · 05-17-2008, 11:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Abel

GX
Again you need to read the James text in it's entire context. Our works are evidence of our faith:James 2:18 "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." It is not required for salvation, but it is proof of our salvation. We are to show forth our works, not to boast, but to bring glory to God:1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." No Contradiction.

Context means nothing. You are caught in a circular argument here. One scripture specifically states faith not works and now this one states both in a roundabout fashion. Contradiction stands

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God is a jealous God, but He is not an envious God. You need to understand the difference in the meaning of these two words. Jealous is not wanting to loose what you have... ie His people lost to Satan. Envy is wanting what another possesses. No Contradiction.

I understand the meaning between the 2 words, jealous has much more negative connotation than envious. Envy implies an eagerness to emulate whereas jealousy in envy with resentment. Thus jealousy is worse form of envy. Contradiction stands

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You, yourself, admit there are several meanings for the word "hate". You challenge the experts of Greek (not me) on it's proper use without any credence of your own? Please. No Contradiction

No, I challenge you because you made the definitive statement. If you cant personally back up what you say and refer me "to the experts" you havent made a case. Its the same thing with your treatise on Noahs ark that you failed miserably to prove. You failed to successfully debate your position. As soon as you dont have an answer, you refer everyone to "the experts" on your chrisitian website without even reading or understanding what they have to say whereas everyone here presents their case with solid statements, a full understanding of their positions and evidence to back it up.

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Also understand that you and I are entering these debates with presuppositions. Because of this I will never convince you, and you will never convince me. What seems plain and logical to me appears foolish to you, and vise versa. But I will play along as you wish. I'll respond to your supposed errors later. I'm a little busy right now

It is not my purpose to convince you of anything Abel. It is my purpose to put your statements to the fire of debate thus forcing you to back up what you have to say instead of giving you a free pass to make ludicrous statements and pass them off as "ultimate truth". Og and the others have so far done a wonderful job exposing your Noahs ark nonsense about the animals for the true biblical error that it is.

It is for the "fence sitters" that I do this. It would break my heart to think that a christian that is struggling with dropping his insane beliefs of an angry god, original sin, the devil and hell and is ready to move to the next level reads your posts and decides to go back to those dysfunctional beliefs. I am debating you to prevent that Abel and you are doing this to cause that. Make no mistake about it. As a matter of fact Abel, you have directly inspired me to start a new thread I will call "the bible contradiction of the day" and will post frequently to keep it alive. I have found a website that lists hundreds of these. Hopefully this thread will convince those fence sitters to move forward and not backward.

romansh · 05-17-2008, 12:01 PM

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Originally Posted by GX

It is for the "fence sitters" that I do this. It would break my heart to think that a christian that is struggling with dropping his insane beliefs of an angry god, original sin, the devil and hell and is ready to move to the next level reads your posts and decides to go back to those dysfunctional beliefs. I am debating you to prevent that Abel and you are doing this to cause that. Make no mistake about it. As a matter of fact Abel, you have directly inspired me to start a new thread I will call "the bible contradiction of the day" and will post frequently to keep it alive. I have found a website that lists hundreds of these. Hopefully this thread will convince those fence sitters to move forward and not backward.

GX ... I like it.
But if may suggest, rather focussing on the contradictions, focus on a more helpful interpretation?

**WilliamBlue** · 05-17-2008, 12:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Abel

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Originally Posted by WilliamBlue

Abel, is your God omniscience and omnipotent?

Yes He is.

Then he knows what is going to happen in the future?

GX · 05-17-2008, 12:34 PM

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Originally Posted by romansh

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Originally Posted by GX

It is for the "fence sitters" that I do this. It would break my heart to think that a christian that is struggling with dropping his insane beliefs of an angry god, original sin, the devil and hell and is ready to move to the next level reads your posts and decides to go back to those dysfunctional beliefs. I am debating you to prevent that Abel and you are doing this to cause that. Make no mistake about it. As a matter of fact Abel, you have directly inspired me to start a new thread I will call "the bible contradiction of the day" and will post frequently to keep it alive. I have found a website that lists hundreds of these. Hopefully this thread will convince those fence sitters to move forward and not backward.

GX ... I like it.
But if may suggest, rather focussing on the contradictions, focus on a more helpful interpretation?

I have thought of that already Rom. I will post a lengthy introductory preface to that thread stating my personal positive beliefs about God/Jesus and that we should look at the bible with a grain of salt and move forward etc. etc. before starting off with the contradictions. You gave me an great idea Rom, I would like to post the preface to that thread here and get a critique and suggestions from you all as far as effectiveness, any additional positive interpretations I may have forgotten etc. For now I got stuff to do this weekend and have yet to formulate it, but it will be forthcoming.

The contradictions need to be emphasized though so people will learn to look for and EXPERIENCE God and love in their heart and being and not in the pages of a contradictory, some times insane, error filled book. I will post the contradictions faster than Abel can address them. He will be one busy dude! He will have to spend the totality of his free time addressing them.

pseudonous · 05-17-2008, 01:46 PM

My favorite bible contradiction, Who moved David to number Israel?

2 Samuel 24:1 "And the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.'"

1 Chronicles 21:1 "Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel."

Is it God or Satan? If Wookiees live on Endor you must acquit.

AB517 · 05-17-2008, 02:07 PM

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Originally Posted by GX

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Originally Posted by romansh

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Originally Posted by GX

It is for the "fence sitters" that I do this. It would break my heart to think that a christian that is struggling with dropping his insane beliefs of an angry god, original sin, the devil and hell and is ready to move to the next level reads your posts and decides to go back to those dysfunctional beliefs. I am debating you to prevent that Abel and you are doing this to cause that. Make no mistake about it. As a matter of fact Abel, you have directly inspired me to start a new thread I will call "the bible contradiction of the day" and will post frequently to keep it alive. I have found a website that lists hundreds of these. Hopefully this thread will convince those fence sitters to move forward and not backward.

GX ... I like it.
But if may suggest, rather focussing on the contradictions, focus on a more helpful interpretation?

I have thought of that already Rom. I will post a lengthy introductory preface to that thread stating my personal positive beliefs about God/Jesus and that we should look at the bible with a grain of salt and move forward etc. etc. before starting off with the contradictions. You gave me an great idea Rom, I would like to post the preface to that thread here and get a critique and suggestions from you all as far as effectiveness, any additional positive interpretations I may have forgotten etc. For now I got stuff to do this weekend and have yet to formulate it, but it will be forthcoming.

The contradictions need to be emphasized though so people will learn to look for and EXPERIENCE God and love in their heart and being and not in the pages of a contradictory, some times insane, error filled book. I will post the contradictions faster than Abel can address them. He will be one busy dude! He will have to spend the totality of his free time addressing them.

I see no contradictions in the bible. I see only contradictions in men, but alias, these are not even contradictions when humanity is looked at as a hole. These contradictions are people being people, nothing more.

Focus on teaching the people that do not understand God and Jesus. Teach through them, of them, for them. Slowly, for them and you. For through teaching, the teacher becomes a student. Any true teacher knows this, when realized, the class grows as one.