romansh

sorry asoA .... this is not sharing or fact.

how would I be received if I went to a Muslim forum and started posting reams of quotes from great agnostics like Bertrand Russell and atheists like Richard Dawkins? I'm sure you and your fellow Muslims would find it annoying.

So why don't you enter in to a discussion.

I suspect very few read your quotes anyway

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

a slave of Allah

As Muslim, I consider that the annoying is the wrong idea, not you as a person, you are my brother and you are welcome.

and In Islam, as long as you want the truth, then ask as you wish.

we may have discussion, but as long as:

you will accept the truth, but if you don't have this purpose, then what is the point of discussion ?

Astreja

[quote=a slave of Allah;29180]This is precisely the problem, ASoA.

You claim to already have the truth. Are you willing to consider that you could be wrong about that?

romansh

Ah ... but my truth is not the same as Astrejas' or yours
What do we do now?

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

a slave of Allah

someone took your money, you call the police, you said: this is my money, the other said: this is my money.

What do we do now?

Astreja

In many cases it is easy to determine if a crime has taken place. For instance, if a robbery is recorded on a surveillance camera we can obtain sufficient evidence to convict the robber.

However, after thousands of years of recorded human history we do not have convincing evidence for the existence of gods. All we have is numerous conflicting scriptures (written by humans) and personal spiritual experiences which are perceived by individuals' minds and which we have yet to observe in a scientific context.

Please answer my question, ASoA. Are you willing to consider that you could be wrong about your own beliefs?

a slave of Allah

No, I am sure of my religion, but you will never be sure of yours, since it is nothing but a geuss, while Islam is true information.

If Islam is wrong, I will change my religion.

you don't have any idea about The Mighty Book (Qur'An):

23. And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'ân) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Sûrah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allâh, if you are truthful.
24. But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
25. And give glad tidings to those who believe and do righteous good deeds, that for them will be Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise). Every time they will be provided with a fruit therefrom, they will say: "This is what we were provided with before," and they will be given things in resemblance (i.e. in the same form but different in taste) and they shall have therein Azwâjun Mutahharatun (purified mates or wives), (having no menses, stools, urine, etc.) and they will abide therein forever

Og

So if I write down "the current findings of science are true" on a napkin (or pretty stationary), and then write "the contents of this message are the word of the divine absolute authority (pbuh)" then I can say that that science is no longer a guess but true information?

That seems to be just about what you're saying here in reference to islam.

Science is a collection of guesses. Like the guess of gravity and the guesses of electromagnetism. Guess does not devalue a stance. A guess could be WELL informed and could be constantly tested to the point that it's refined down to absolute truth. But there's no way of knowing that it is absolute truth (ever). So we continue to call it a guess so we make sure we remind ourselves not to fall into the trap that you seem to fall into where some guy can write down words, circularly define them as divine, and then grab a hundreds of millions of people.

The fact that science is a collection of guesses is it's strength. It's the foundation upon which the scientific process stands. Furthermore, any divergence from this stance by anyone (regardless of their vocation) is self delusion.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

AB517

You do not understand sacrifice if you think this.

This explanation of self sacrifice is put forth by people who can not see beyond themselves. The ego raises itself, or lowers everything around it, to try and equal itself to all things. In effect it puts their ego as divine because their ego can not see anything bigger than itself. The ego can not justify its death and thus it explains this to itself as such to make sense of that witch it does not understand … killing itself for something else. Ego does not understand this, for to the ego, there is nothing else but itself. There is nothing else but the body.

shadowind

is there anything else?

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remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll