| Ideology, Theology, & Mythology Arguments for and against certain ideological stances regarding or regardless of their literal/factual validity. |
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05-13-2008, 01:24 AM
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#71 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 143
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Astreja
There are several reasons for my disbelief.
[*]Secondly, I can not find it in myself to worship any being that feels the need to punish less powerful entities. Even if it were the most powerful entity in the universe, I can't love it, trust it or respect it. And in worship, trust is everything.[*]Third, yes, there is a reluctance on my part to submit. Mainly because I can't fathom how a powerful being could ever need me to submit. I think that, from the perspective of a hypothetical god, the greatest humility and the greatest hubris are virtually indistinguishable. | How many times we said that God does not need you and does not need your worship or obedience.
Did we say that God needs your worship, or did we say the following:
[/quote]Book 032, Number 6246:
Abu Dharr reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying
that Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said: My servants, I have made
oppression unlawful for Me and unlawful for you, so do not commit oppression
against one another. My servants, all of you are liable to err except one
whom I guide on the right path, so seek right guidance from Me so that I
should direct you to the right path. O My servants, all of you are hungry
(needy) except one whom I feed, so beg food from Me, so that I may give
that to you. O My servants, all of you are naked (need clothes) except one
whom I provide garments, so beg clothes from Me, so that I should clothe
you. O My servants, you commit error night and day and I am there to
pardon your sins, so beg pardon from Me so that I should grant you pardon.
O My servants, you can neither do Me any harm nor can you do Me any
good. O My servants, even if the first amongst you and the last amongst you
and even the whole of human race of yours, and that of jinns even, become
(equal in) God-conscious like the heart of a single person amongst you,
nothing would add to My Power. O My servants, even if the first amongst you
and the last amongst you and the whole human race of yours and that of the
Jinns too in unison become the most wicked (all beating) like the heart of a
single person, it would cause no loss to My Power. O My servants, even if
the first amongst you and the last amongst you and the whole human race of
yours and that of jinns also all stand in one plain ground and you ask Me and
I confer upon every person what he asks for, it would not. in any way, cause
any loss to Me (even less) than that which is caused to the ocean by dipping
the needle in it. My servants, these for you I shall reward you for thern, so
he who deeds of yours which I am recording finds good should praise Allah
and he who does not find that should not blame anyone but his ownself. Sa'id
said that when Abu Idris Khaulini narrated this hadith he knelt upon his knees.[/quote]
If you love Him, then He is to be loved, because His beautiful Names and Qualities, He is The Most Merciful and He does not need our love.
Did I not mention:
[/quote]Allah is The Great, if you respect Him, you will find Him Merciful with you, but if you do not, then you are the loser, He will disgrace you in Hell.
the opposit of the Great is the disgraced, so do not oppose Allah.[/quote]
Allah is The All Peace, and from Him Peace comes, so don't oppose Allah, because if you do so, you will be far away from Him, and you will be in danger. Allah The Most Merciful said: 63. And the slaves of the Most Beneficent (Allâh) are those who walk on the earth in humility and sedateness, and when the foolish address them (with bad words) they reply back with mild words of gentleness.
64. And those who spend the night before their Lord, prostrate and standing[].
65. And those who say: "Our Lord! Avert from us the torment of Hell. Verily! Its torment is ever an inseparable, permanent punishment."
66. Evil indeed it (Hell) is as an abode and as a place to dwell.
67. And those, who, when they spend, are neither extravagant nor niggardly, but hold a medium (way) between those (extremes).
68. And those who invoke not any other ilâh (god) along with Allâh, nor kill such life as Allâh has forbidden, except for just cause, nor commit illegal sexual intercourse and whoever does this shall receive the punishment[].
69. The torment will be doubled to him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein in disgrace; 70. Except those who repent and believe (in Islâmic Monotheism), and do righteous deeds, for those, Allâh will change their sins into good deeds, and Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful[].
71. And whosoever repents and does righteous good deeds, then verily, he repents towards Allâh with true repentance.
72. And those who do not witness falsehood, and if they pass by some evil play or evil talk, they pass by it with dignity.
73. And those who, when they are reminded of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord, fall not deaf and blind thereat.
74. And those who say: "Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders for the Muttaqűn" (pious - see V.2:2 and the footnote of V.3:164)."
75. Those will be rewarded with the highest place (in Paradise) because of their patience. Therein they shall be met with greetings and the word of peace and respect.
76. Abiding therein; excellent it is as an abode, and as a place to dwell.
77. Say (O Muhammad SAW to the disbelievers): "My Lord pays attention to you only because of your invocation to Him. But now you have indeed denied (Him). So the torment will be yours for ever (inseparable permanent punishment)."
and He The Judge said: 34. Verily, for the Muttaqűn (pious and righteous persons - see V.2:2) are Gardens of delight (Paradise) with their Lord.
35. Shall We then treat the (submitting) Muslims like the Mujriműn (criminals, polytheists and disbelievers, etc.)?
36. What is the matter with you? How judge you? |
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05-13-2008, 01:49 AM
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#72 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 143
| Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowind it is god that would be full of arrogance
. | 24. He is Allâh, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names[] . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
Allah is The Supreme, because He is The Perfect and He is The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful, but human and all creatures do not have the right to be arrogant, because they are imperfect and they are slaves, and they were nothing.
Allah is The Ever Lasting Refuge
without Allah, every thing is nothing. |
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05-13-2008, 01:59 AM
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#73 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 143
| 139. Say (O Muhammad )"Dispute you with us about Allâh while He is our Lord and your Lord? And we are to be rewarded for our deeds and you for your deeds. [27] And we are sincere to Him in worship and obedience (i.e. we worship Him Alone and none else, and we obey His Orders)." |
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05-13-2008, 12:58 PM
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#74 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6
| I believe Islam is the greatest disaster of our world. Some may disallow my idea but I have a lot of evidence, most of them from Quran, that Islam is the religion of terror, war, blood, pedophilia, polygamy, slavery … etc. One who believes in Quran, cannot reject my these because they are all shape the main theme of Quran.
Quran has 3 main parts:
1- Stories and fictions from the Old Testament or ancient Arabs which are as silly as their original ones. For instance, we can name tales of Noah, Moses, Abraham, Adam and so on.
2- What Allah offer to Muslims if they fight for him or how Allah punish them if they stop fighting, is to encourage Muslims to fight.
3- What should Muslims do or should not do.
The three main parts together make Islam a disaster. First you may find out that Allah did not really know how he made the universe. In “18. Al Kahf” he thought the sun fall into a well of mud when it sets. May be “a slave of Allah” could find out how the muddy sun is awfully bright shining at the other side of the earth! Another, is why Muslims treat aggressively toward others and their countries are always full of war. This part is the best answer to “what Muslim wanted in North Africa, Persia, Mesopotamia, East Europe and Spain?” And the other, is why Muslims decapitate themselves, snore, cut hands and foots … etc. If such a religion is not a disaster, what is it then? |
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05-13-2008, 01:04 PM
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#75 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6
| Quote:
Originally Posted by a slave of Allah ...23. And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'ân) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Sűrah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allâh, if you are truthful.
24. But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
... | Many Ex-Muslims (who are much esteemed to me) composed Surahs better than Quran’s. Most of these surehs are in Arabic. By the way every body can rewrite Quran words in a better style with less grammatical mistakes. Who cannot write better than this verse is suggested to think about all people he/she knows:
(33. Al Ahzab, Verse 50 
"O Prophet (Muhammad )! Verily, We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom you have paid their Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage), and those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses - whom Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your 'Amm (paternal uncles) and the daughters of your 'Ammah (paternal aunts) and the daughters of your Khal (maternal uncles) and the daughters of your Khalah (maternal aunts) who migrated (from Makkah) with you, and a believing woman if she offers herself to you, and you wish to marry her; a privilege for you only, not for the (rest of) the believers. Indeed We know what We have enjoined upon them about their wives and those (captives or slaves) whom their right hands possess, - in order that there should be no difficulty on you. And Allah is Ever Ofta Forgiving, Most Merciful."
Anyhow, what could be proofed if we cannot write something like Quran? Does it show that Slavery is a moral deed? Or for instance “Godsby” is a story that does not have any “e” in it and most of us are not able to write such a masterpiece. Could we call it the work of God? |
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05-13-2008, 01:09 PM
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#76 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6
| Quote:
Originally Posted by a slave of Allah Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathematician I mean, who had a lot of wives and slaves in his Harem. He had nothing to do with morality, kindness, …, because of his deed during 6th century. He raped Ayasheh when she was only 8 or 9 under the name of marriage. How could she decide to marry Mohammed at 9? We call such an action pedophilia, don’t we? Meanwhile, he killed many Jews and owned their property and wives. How could such a person be called “gentle”, “light”, “polite”… etc? | I don't know why all this hate against a man, who want us to be saved, and live a true life which is full of beauty and light, but I will reply for you (O brother Mohammad peace be upon you). | I do not hate Mohammed, while I do not hate Napoleon, Hitler, and Attila. They were all cruel leaders but have nothing to do with us now. They are all dead. I hate those who encourage people to believe such devils were moral and we should obey them!
At last we invite the Slave of Allah to participate in an argument with Mr. Ali Sina (an Ex-Muslim) at http://www.faithfreedom.org/ and win a 50000 USD if could answer to some questions relating to Islam. |
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05-13-2008, 02:12 PM
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#77 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 353
| Quote:
Originally Posted by a slave of Allah Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowind it is god that would be full of arrogance
. | 24. He is Allâh, the Creator, the Inventor of all things, the Bestower of forms. To Him belong the Best Names[] . All that is in the heavens and the earth glorify Him. And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
Allah is The Supreme, because He is The Perfect and He is The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful, but human and all creatures do not have the right to be arrogant, because they are imperfect and they are slaves, and they were nothing.
Allah is The Ever Lasting Refuge
without Allah, every thing is nothing. |
to me the difference between everything and nothing is as simple as a shift of the eye. also how do we know god is perfect? maby perfection belongs to humans as well, even though perfection is a subjective quality...
__________________  remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll |
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05-13-2008, 02:14 PM
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#78 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 353
| Quote:
Originally Posted by sisterX Shadow, wouldn't that be cutting off your nose to spite your face? | i'm not sure what that means, i've never heard it before.
__________________  remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll |
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05-13-2008, 02:15 PM
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#79 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 353
| Quote:
Originally Posted by a slave of Allah How many times we said that God does not need you and does not need your worship or obedience.
| then he doesn't need us to follow a religion correct?
__________________  remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll |
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05-13-2008, 02:22 PM
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#80 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6
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