Allah is above what you think and imagine - Page 7

Astreja · 05-12-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a slave of Allah

"...fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers."

This is the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad baculum, or the use of threatening language to attempt to persuade.

And one of the primary reasons that I can not and shall not accept Islam. A god that threatens people for non-belief is beneath contempt and utterly unworthy of worship.

xexon · 05-12-2008, 06:28 PM

Ultimately, Muslims are also victims of a dogma which has no living master to guide it. A book cannot respond like a person connected to the divine can.

I've read the Koran. I understand it flows like poetry if you speak Arabic.

All holy books represent something that ordinary people witnessed and wrote about. They were inspired because they saw the divine live among them.

What they fail to mention is this is your future as you mature as a soul.

To be divine, and still live among men.

x

AB517 · 05-12-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowind

is there anything else?

To the egoic person, of course not, they (it) see(s) god in the mirror.

They see this world and this time alone. They have no sense of “we”, now and in the future, so they extend the idea of “me” out to others in a vain attempt by the ego to reach divinity by equalizing itself to all others, for itself, of itself, alone. The ego defines other bodies as god so that its body too must then be a God. To the ego, if the body is a manifestation of god, so then the ego lives as a god. The ego's final goal, Adam has bitten the apple, the separation, as illusionary as it is, completed.

How can an ego see anything but this world when it uses the brain and not the mind. It touches with its hands, not its heart, forever locked in this world.

greywolf90 · 05-12-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by greywolf90

wow great stuff og. i love your whole concept of self, sacrifice, and core. i never really thought about self sacrifice really being an extension of self preservation, but it really makes sense to me now. your point on how the brain sacrifices the arm in order to protect itself reminded me of apoptosis, where billions of your cells kill themselves for the benefit of the core. it also never occured to me that your self can be extended beyond your body (i vaguely remember you mentioning this sometime before, but i didn't understand it). your ideas really gave me some food for thought.

You do not understand sacrifice if you think this.

This explanation of self sacrifice is put forth by people who can not see beyond themselves. The ego raises itself, or lowers everything around it, to try and equal itself to all things. In effect it puts their ego as divine because their ego can not see anything bigger than itself. The ego can not justify its death and thus it explains this to itself as such to make sense of that witch it does not understand … killing itself for something else. Ego does not understand this, for to the ego, there is nothing else but itself. There is nothing else but the body.

if i do not understand something, do not simply tell me so; enlighten me. what do you consider sacrifice to be? as for me, i think og's theory is an appropriate explanation of human behavior. why do you think thousands of your cells are killing themselves every day? it is for your benefit; your cells will die in order to protect you because survival of the whole is more important than the survival of a part. you can also consider og's example of sacrificing your arms in order to protect your head. unlike cell death, this is the voluntary response of your nervous system, and again, it is the death of a part in order to protect the whole. now consider how this relates to human sacrifice.

why would a person sacrifice themselves to protect their family? why would a soldier die for a country that will probably never remember them? why would a person die for a religion or an idea. this would seem to go against the laws of self preservation, but what og was trying to explain was that it really doesn't. we are willing to sacrifice our lives because instead of thinking of ourselves as a whole, we start to see ourselves as a part of a whole, and we are placing the survival of that whole at a higher importance then we the part. i think that this is what og meant by the Self being whatever we die for.

if you still consider explanation wrong, please contribute your superior explanation. also, i think your accusation of og's ego is contrary to what he is saying. it is hardly egotistical to consider yourself a part of a much more important whole.

sisterX · 05-12-2008, 08:36 PM

Do you not find it extraordinary that no part of the Qur'an has been shown to be false? Not even one statement. There are also numerous scientific miracles in the Qur'an.

This life is a TEST of FAITH and faith is a matter of CHOICE. In the case of Astreja, she chooses not to believe in a God that would want her to worship Him and would punish her if she did not. I do not believe it is because of lack of proof that causes her to disbelieve but rather the reluctance to SUBMIT to the Almighty.

The idea of being a slave to God revolts some people and this is due to arrogance, this arrogance is similar to that of Iblis (satan) when he was ordered to bow down to Adam and refused.

According to Islam there are two types of sin. The sin of not doing what has been made obligatory (such as worshiping God) and the sin of doing what has been made illegal (murder, drinking alcohol, gambling etc). The greater of the two is the former because this results from arrogance whereas the later results from weakness.

shadowind · 05-12-2008, 08:53 PM

sisterX, what is greater evil, a master beating his will into his subjects, or the subjects beating the master into an equal? and if in the resistence one dies for his cause, it is nobel. it is god that would be full of arrogance, it depends on how you look on the situation. force and fear i will not bend to if i can accomplish such, i am a slave enough just by existing and i value Love and freedom/liberty not a "Paradise" of god's, but my own "paradise" for if its not my paradise, its not a paradise at all, at least not to me.

AB
seeing the self in everything, is often also seeing everything in the self. its about understanding the relationships and causes of actions and states. The ego is diminished as a small part of the self, not necssarly extended into everything. i've noticed a difference in my impulse and my will, my will is my counsiousness or awarness, my impulse is my sexual drive, hunger,ext. i guess the impulse is the Id.

Og · 05-12-2008, 08:55 PM

Welcome back sisterX, long time

sisterX · 05-12-2008, 09:04 PM

aaw Og didn't expect such a warm welcome back. Thanks

Shadow, wouldn't that be cutting off your nose to spite your face?

**debdodd** · 05-12-2008, 09:17 PM

Yes indeed! Welcome back! Hugs to the boys! You've been missed! Deb
BTW Alex just got back form Egypt and Jordan and absolutely loved it .... a little too hot for him but loved the people and hated the food ... go figure a boy not liking food ... oh but he did love Nubian food ... he loves North African food ... okay no hijacking this thread ... just wanted to say hello and welcome you back! Hugs, Deb

Astreja · 05-12-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sisterX

In the case of Astreja, she chooses not to believe in a God that would want her to worship Him and would punish her if she did not. I do not believe it is because of lack of proof that causes her to disbelieve but rather the reluctance to SUBMIT to the Almighty.

Not exactly, SisterX (By the way, welcome back!)

There are several reasons for my disbelief.

First of all, I don't think it plausible for there to be one and only one god out there. Either there are many (none of them possessing infinite power or wisdom), or there are none at all.
Secondly, I can not find it in myself to worship any being that feels the need to punish less powerful entities. Even if it were the most powerful entity in the universe, I can't love it, trust it or respect it. And in worship, trust is everything.
Third, yes, there is a reluctance on my part to submit. Mainly because I can't fathom how a powerful being could ever need me to submit. I think that, from the perspective of a hypothetical god, the greatest humility and the greatest hubris are virtually indistinguishable.
Finally, even if my conduct on this planet is deemed good enough to entitle me to residence in a supernatural paradise -- And I do try my best -- I also feel a compulsion to stand by any beings who may have been sentenced to a less favourable future. If Hell exists, I choose to go there.