Astreja

Well, the analogy is similar but not quite accurate. I'll try to explain what I'm seeing in the whole situation:

First point: I simply don't comprehend how a god could be injured or offended by the actions of a mortal. From my (admittedly limited) point of view, it would be like me getting offended by the whisperings of the ladybugs in the garden, or by that nasty face my cat Raistlin made when I didn't let him go outside.

Second point: In order for there to be justice, the punishment should fit the crime. How could any mortal action be deserving of eternal punishment?
Well, I have had interesting experiences that lead me to believe that an unknown something is operating behind the scenes. I don't see this 'something' as resembling anything in the religious texts of the world, although there's an occasional correspondence.

If I did actually encounter a celestial being, I'd probably go "Ooh! Ahh!" with the best of them. I'd tend to believe that yes, the being did actually exist. However, if I found out that this being tormented miscreants for eternity I doubt that I could bring myself to love it. It would be a deep and probably indelible disappointment, and the knowledge of the being's cruel nature would be 'hell' in itself.

a slave of Allah

1. Allah is The Most Merciful, He forgives those who were wrong when they repent to Him, so say the truth, you don't want to believe because the evil tempts you, not because God will punish the disbeliever and bad persons.

See the evidence:
The good is part of the beauty.

2. Allah is Great, so if you don't like that, find another god who likes to be disrespected as you.

3. Yes, He doesn't need us, but we need him.

The doctor doesn't need the student, but the student must follow the right way if he want to succeed. Otherwise the fool will fall into Hell.

4. For more details, see page 8, if you are not blind.


Allah The Most Merciful said:

53. Say: "O 'Ibâdî (My slaves) who have transgressed against themselves (by committing evil deeds and sins)! Despair not of the Mercy of Allâh, verily Allâh forgives all sins. Truly, He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful[].

54. "And turn in repentance and in obedience with true Faith (Islâmic Monotheism) to your Lord and submit to Him, (in Islâm), before the torment comes upon you, then you will not be helped.

55. "And follow the best of that which is sent down to you from your Lord (i.e. this Qur'ân, do what it orders you to do and keep away from what it forbids), before the torment comes on you suddenly while you perceive not!"

56. Lest a person should say: "Alas, my grief that I was undutiful to Allâh (i.e. I have not done what Allâh has ordered me to do), and I was indeed among those who mocked [at the truth! i.e. Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh), the Qur'ân, and Muhammad SAW and at the faithful believers, etc.]

57. Or (lest) he should say: "If only Allâh had guided me, I should indeed have been among the Muttaqûn (pious and righteous persons - see V.2:2)."

58. Or (lest) he should say when he sees the torment: "If only I had another chance (to return to the world) then I should indeed be among the Muhsinûn (good-doers - see V.2:112)."

59. Yes! Verily, there came to you My Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and you denied them, and were proud and were among the disbelievers.

a slave of Allah

Don't look at your sin, look at The Majesty of The One you disrespect Him, so you will know why this eternal punishment.

He is The Eternal, The Light and The Peace, so if you oppose Him, you will be in darkness and danger forever, but if repent befor you die, then you will be in light and peace forever.

shadowind

i have looked, and i see little majesty in some parts of relgions, although i haven't read the quran, it is the same god as the bible correct? i have looked into the bible god, what "evidence" is there that doesn't follow the same thought patterns as the bible. if its the same abstract, what will the rephrasement do any different, is the bible and quran really different, i know a few of the basics, theres 7 pillers, bowing towards mecca, mecca holy city, muhammad the last prophet, i don't think your suppose to drink beer and such ext.

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remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

a slave of Allah

1. Drinking is not disbelief, it is a sin of disobadience.

"Allah the Almighty has said: 'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me, and hope in Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds in the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I shall forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with an earthful of sins and were you then to face Me, without having associated anything with Me, I shall grant you an earthful of pardon.'"

If Allah made something lawful, no one has the right to forbid it, and if He mede something forbiden, no one has the right to make it lawful, but if someone did so, then he is a disbeliever, and any one follow him in that is a disbeliever, too, and is a slave for that person.

2. We believe in the Bible of Jesus PBUH, The true Bible, not these bibles which have a lot of mistakes.
The Bible has been changed by lier people, so that a lot of mistakes are there, but if it is from Allah, you will never find any mistake.
for more details:
http://www.55a.net/firas/english/

Astreja

False! How dare you make such an assumption of any of us. Do not, under any circumstances, tell us what we think or feel. You can speak only for yourself.

Not necessarily, ASoA. For instance, in the Daodejing it says:

Truthful words are not beautiful; beautiful words are not truthful. Good words are not persuasive; persuasive words are not good. He who knows has no wide learning; he who has wide learning does not know.

The gods of my Scandinavian ancestors I consider to be respectworthy because they value personal initiative and honour in their mortal children. (Oh, and the Æsir and Vanir don't threaten anyone with eternal punishment, although they did have Loki imprisoned for his part in the death of Baldur.)

ASoA, your god-concept would be much more palatable if it did not contain so many "believe or burn!" threats. Your behaviour on this forum isn't exactly exemplary, either...
Ad hominem.
Ad hominem.

And once again I remind you that quoting the Qur'an does not inspire me in any way.

AB517

So this means that when we die you or I will say we are wrong and we are sorry. POOF ... Forgiven ... after a-bit-o-time-out of course ... silly me.

Once we know the truth Gods forgives us both for being foolish.
Like I forgive my children ... like I ever even judged them.

a slave of Allah

sometimes a person believe in something right, but his way is wrong.

Allah is Oft Forgiving , but not according to your false idea.
I can say that: USA is the best country for freedom, because I can kill whom I want and I can rape whom I want, etc.
But if the government forgave me because of this nice believe (that USA is the freedom country), then it is a fool govrnment we can deceive it as we wish.

48. Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin.[]

49. Have you not seen those who claim sanctity for themselves. Nay - but Allâh sanctifies whom He pleases, and they will not be dealt with injustice even equal to the extent of a Fatilâ (A scalish thread in the long slit of a date*stone).

50. Look, how they invent a lie against Allâh, and enough is that as a manifest sin.



146. Except those who repent, do righteous good deeds, hold fast to Allâh, and purify their religion for Allâh (by worshipping none but Allâh, and do good for Allâh's sake only), then they will be with the believers. And Allâh will grant to the believers a great reward.

147. Why should Allâh punish you if you have thanked (Him) and have believed in Him. And Allâh is Ever All *Appreciative (of good), All* Knowing.



Finally, I would like to thank the prophet who invites us to God and His grace:

Mohammad is gentle, Mohammad is light
Mohammad (the prophet) was very polite

Mohammad was telling only truth
Mohammad is honest, Mohammad is right

Mohammad was calling people to paradise
Only wrong people (against him) fight

Peace be upon you O Mohammad
During the day, and during the night

sisterX

My dear sister Astreja, God is never injured by anything He is the Almighty all Powerful above everything. He is in no need of your acceptance and recognition. His Power does not decrease even by a fraction if you decide not to worship Him and niether does His Might increase with your worship.

It is simple sister, God tells us he created us for one purpose and that is to worship and obey Him. Because of the fact he created us with free will, there will be those who chose not to obey Him.
It is not our duty to question God and figure out why He has Created us with this freedom of will we must simply accept the fact that He has, and has laid out instructions for us that we may prosper in this world and the next.



Who decides which punishment fits which crime? You and I? Or the One Created us and knows our nature better than we do? Sister it is not simply the sin that God will punish for, but also the reluctance to repent for that sin. God tell us to seek refuge in Him from Hell and he will grant us that refuge and forgive our sins.

The following are a few ahadith talking about Allah's Mercy. Its a bit long but it will give a good understandng of Allah Mercy:

Hadith Qudsi 1:
'When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: My mercy prevails over my wrath'

Hadith Qudsi 12:
'A man from among those who were before you was called to account. Nothing in the way of good was found for him except that he used to have dealings with people and, being well-to-do, he would order his servants to let off the man in straitened circumstances [from repaying his debt]. He (the Prophet (salAllahu alayhi wasalam)) said that Allah said: We are worthier than you of that (of being so generous). Let him off.'

Hadith Qudsi 15:

'I am as My servant thinks I am. I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.'


Hadith Qudsi 16:

'Allah has written down the good deeds and the bad ones. Then He explained it [by saying that] he who has intended a good deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds to seven hundred times, or many times over. But if he has intended a bad deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed.'

Hadith Qudsi 17:

'O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything.

O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other that blame no one but himself.'

Hadith Qudsi 32:

'A man sinned greatly against himself, and when death came to him he charged his sons, saying: When I have died, burn me, then crush me and scatter [my ashes] into the sea, for, by Allah, if my Lord takes possession of me, He will punish me in a manner in which He has punished no one [else]. So they did that to him. Then He said to the earth: Produce what you have taken-and there he was! And He said to him: What induced you to do what you did? He said: Being afraid of You, O my Lord (or he said: Being frightened of You) and because of that He forgave him.'


Hadith Qudsi 33:

'A servant [of Allah's] committed a sin and said: O Allah, forgive me my sin. And He (glorified and exalted be He) said: My servant has committed a sin and has known that he has a Lord who forgives sins and punishes for them. Then he sinned again and said: O Lord, forgive me my sin. And He (glorified and exalted be He) said: My servant has committed a sin and has known that he has a Lord who forgives sins and punishes for them. Then he sinned again and said: O Lord, forgive me my sin. And He (glorified and exalted be He) said: My servant has committed a sin and has known that he has a Lord who forgives sins and punishes for sins. Do what you wish, for I have forgiven you.'


Hadith Qudsi 34:

'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great at it.'

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"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

sisterX

Dear brother Save-of-Allah, with respect, please remember it is not in your power to guide anyone but it is in Allah's Power to guide those who seek His guidance. It is not permitted for us to offend and talk down to anybody, your duty is only to portray the message of Islam and the example of our noble prophet.

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"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran