Do I really want to know the truth - Page 2

Lanya · 04-26-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz2

I found this site purely by mistake but, ironicly I was having this discussion with my 15 year old son the other evening. Let's get one thing clear first right off the bat. I am NOT either an agnostic nor atheist. I am a CHRISTIAN. But my son I believe, is. Judging by his statements to me. I am just trying to gain some insight into his thought process and how he's come to BELIEVE the way he does... or doesn't. I'm not here to judge anyone. I leave that up to GOD when the time comes. And it will. Thank you for your patience and tolerance... hopefully.

From your first post, I assumed that your purpose in posting here was to understand agnostic thinking. Was there more to your purpose than just that? Has it changed/expanded?

I'm just curious because it seems the focus of your more recent posts drifted away from seeking understanding of why some agnostics think the way they do.

neverforever · 04-26-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz2

So, you choose not to believe. Instead of educating yourself. That is foolish.
The way I see it, you are choosing to be in hell.

Your calling me foolish you know I dont usely get mad about what people say. I think of myself as a pretty smart person.

Quote:

Now you know your destination. But, there is still time to change your journey. Both are up to you, journey and destination. Until you die. Then it's too late.
Heaven forbid, if you were to die today. Your soul would spend eternity in hell. Why are you willing to take that chance?

So do you only belive in god because there is a chance to go to hell no you believe in god because thats what you were told to belive you are the foolish one cant think for yourself.

Quote:

Why don't you educate yourself about GOD? There's many books out there. Ignorance is not an excuse. It's a cop out. You're either too lazy or too much of a coward to actually educate yourself.

I dont remember every saying I was ingnorate. And I do educate myself i have looked into many relgions.

Quote:

Are you afraid what other folks like yourself will think about you? That they'll not want to be seen with you? If they won't accept you as you are, or become, then they aren't worth the time anyway. That goes for anyone who is reading this. Yall are all in control of your own destination. Just a matter of which path you will choose to take your journey on. I KNOW my destination. I will be with JESUS in the house of the LORD.

No I'm not afraid of what my friends will think because if i did I would still be a FOOLISH CHRISTIAN. I HATE YOU ATTACKING THE BELIEFS THAT YOU THINK I HAVE.

StuckInThe90s · 05-03-2008, 09:25 PM

Let's say hypothetically somehow, someway, it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, so well proven, even conservative, fundamental Christians would accept it, that we are nothing but our physical bodies. We have no soul, there is no reincarnation, there is no afterlife, there is no higher power. After learning this, most will be depressed and want to prolong life as long as possible. Maybe some who originally would not wish to live as a vegetable thanks to a freak accident would want to stay on life support forever until they naturally die, which could possibly be a long time. The human race would do everything in their power to postpone death as long as it could. We would scratch, claw, bite, and bitch as much as we could knowing death is imminent, even the ones who originally were comfortable with it, whether Buddhist, Christian, Pagan, to name just a few. At the very least, I'd say 80% of the world would try their damnedest to keep their hearts beating.

Now let's say, hypothetically, that the Christian God came to Earth and told us all that it's true that the only way you go to Heaven is through living life based on the way the Bible says and after that he leaves. In the wake of this revelation, some would go crazy wondering whether they are living the "right way" and become frustrated with the silent response from prayers asking how they are doing. Now there would be those whom, while dread going to "Hell", wouldn't want to worship a God like that, hence my signature.

So which scenario is the better? I have no idea. Do you?

neverforever · 05-04-2008, 05:50 AM

I know your saying hypothetically but the living as a vegetable i bet a lot of people will still want the plug pulled because me personnel i don't believe in anything after this life and would never want to live like that.

StuckInThe90s · 05-04-2008, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverforever

I know your saying hypothetically but the living as a vegetable i bet a lot of people will still want the plug pulled because me personnel i don't believe in anything after this life and would never want to live like that.

There's a reason Atheists make up 4% of Americans and Christians make up 75%

Not just Americans, most people as a whole tend to prefer the concept of some kind of afterlife over nothing.

**debdodd** · 05-04-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StuckInThe90s

Let's say hypothetically somehow, someway, it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, so well proven, even conservative, fundamental Christians would accept it, that we are nothing but our physical bodies. We have no soul, there is no reincarnation, there is no afterlife, there is no higher power. After learning this, most will be depressed and want to prolong life as long as possible. Maybe some who originally would not wish to live as a vegetable thanks to a freak accident would want to stay on life support forever until they naturally die, which could possibly be a long time. The human race would do everything in their power to postpone death as long as it could. We would scratch, claw, bite, and bitch as much as we could knowing death is imminent, even the ones who originally were comfortable with it, whether Buddhist, Christian, Pagan, to name just a few. At the very least, I'd say 80% of the world would try their damnedest to keep their hearts beating.

Now let's say, hypothetically, that the Christian God came to Earth and told us all that it's true that the only way you go to Heaven is through living life based on the way the Bible says and after that he leaves. In the wake of this revelation, some would go crazy wondering whether they are living the "right way" and become frustrated with the silent response from prayers asking how they are doing. Now there would be those whom, while dread going to "Hell", wouldn't want to worship a God like that, hence my signature.

So which scenario is the better? I have no idea. Do you?

I like the scenario of not knowing and doing the right things and behaving in a benevolent way towards all mankind out of no sense of obligation, duty, or punishment ....

to do things because they are the "right" things to do not out of fear because of what will come after you die ..... a heavenly here after is more frightening to me than any other form of afterlife .... ugh, eternity with relatives .... ick

one can speculate and extrapolate until the person works them self in to a froth of fear of what if's and could be maybes ... that's where I was at one time ...

I gotta tell you that whole time of flux was horrible .... I thought I was loosing my mind trying to figure it out ... it's what I would assume manic depressive go thru the highs and lows, the decision, indecision ...

I finally said I don't know, I am just going to live my life in a loving way, try and not make too many mistakes, take care of those that I can, not try and change the mind set of the blind and enjoy the short time that I have on this earth ....

I'm nobody special .... just one of the worker bees of the world I will never be remembered in history for anything great that I have accomplished ... I will have just been here, trudging along in life, taking care of my family/friends as best I can ....

I go by the whole Hippocratic oath thing .... do no harm .... as a nurse I care for those that often can't and have to suck it up when there is no other choice, sometimes I make bad decisions, I either live with the consequences or try and learn from them, not make them again or apologize and move on .....

I have few regrets in life. I don't live in the past, I have allowed the past to shape who I am today but that's all .... the afterlife and worrying about it can lead one into madness trying to figure out all the what if's .... none of it's prove-able until your dead so make your life the best you can while you are living it .....

okay, now get off the soap box Deb ... once again just my opinion and the credo I live by .... have fun searching for the answers ....

jimmy77611 · 05-04-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz2

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverforever

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz2

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

I don't think people that are searching for the truth, regardless of label, are that different. An agnostic, in the search for the truth, might say I have been down that alley, it leads nowhere and retrace their steps and explore the next.

It's just that we find crowds of people in these alleys who think it will lead to the promised land.

Tell your uncle ... it is the journey not the destination that counts.

AGAIN you're wrong. It IS the destination that counts. The journey that you CHOOSE to take is of some importance also, because you will have to stand before GOD and explain each and every event in your life. But, you ultimately want to get to Heaven. Did you do good all your life or were you a "bad" person. The good things that you did,.. were they for selfish reasons, or did you do them because it would benefit you in some way...ie; volunteer at a homeless center to help people or because this girl you like was there and you just wanted to get with her? Motives. That is the path you choose to go on your own. GOD knows your heart. Even though you're helping the homeless folks, your motives are impure.
Yes, some paths do lead to nowhere. You just have to know not to go down those. The ultimate goal is the destination. Whether you choose the path of rightiousness or evil is totally up to you. The destination is very important... Heaven or hell.
Are you willing to put your eternity on the line? Where your soul will spend "forever"? It's simple for me. I choose to spend it with The FATHER, our GOD, living in complete bliss. Not in hell being tormented FOREVER. Think of hell as your worst nightmare. Then multiply is thousands of times. I'm not willing to take that chance. Are you? That's the biggest gamble of all time, if you're willing to take it. Alot at stake. The journey is simple... for me. The destination is the house of the LORD. Most important.

But what about for us that dont belive in heven and hell the journey is the only thing that exists. I know the journey is there because Im doing it I do not know where the destation is.

So, you choose not to believe. Instead of educating yourself. That is foolish.
The way I see it, you are choosing to be in hell. Now you know your destination. But, there is still time to change your journey. Both are up to you, journey and destination. Until you die. Then it's too late.
Heaven forbid, if you were to die today. Your soul would spend eternity in hell. Why are you willing to take that chance?
Why don't you educate yourself about GOD? There's many books out there. Ignorance is not an excuse. It's a cop out. You're either too lazy or too much of a coward to actually educate yourself. Are you afraid what other folks like yourself will think about you? That they'll not want to be seen with you? If they won't accept you as you are, or become, then they aren't worth the time anyway. That goes for anyone who is reading this. Yall are all in control of your own destination. Just a matter of which path you will choose to take your journey on. I KNOW my destination. I will be with JESUS in the house of the LORD.

Don't you think that it is odd to be SO sure that people who don't choose jesus will end up in hell, when you have no shred of evidence to support this stance? Are you getting this from the bible? The same book that is full of so many mistakes and inaccuracies about reality, that it's not even funny!

You're warning people about something that you have no idea or proof that it actually exists. You only believe it because someone told you, and you read about it in an ancient book of mythology. If you had grown up in a muslim country, you'd feel the same way about allah, and probably even just as sure about that as you are about christianity.

I used to be just like you, until one day I began to think, and realized that I was warning people of condemnation based upon an ideology that I KNEW to be true, without any shred of evidence whatsoever.

Hell fire & brimstone, that'll win them over! Let's scare them into becoming a christian! Seems about as valid as a forced confession. Why not just waterboard them?

Abel · 05-05-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy77611

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz2

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverforever

Quote:

Originally Posted by buzz2

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

I don't think people that are searching for the truth, regardless of label, are that different. An agnostic, in the search for the truth, might say I have been down that alley, it leads nowhere and retrace their steps and explore the next.

It's just that we find crowds of people in these alleys who think it will lead to the promised land.

Tell your uncle ... it is the journey not the destination that counts.

AGAIN you're wrong. It IS the destination that counts. The journey that you CHOOSE to take is of some importance also, because you will have to stand before GOD and explain each and every event in your life. But, you ultimately want to get to Heaven. Did you do good all your life or were you a "bad" person. The good things that you did,.. were they for selfish reasons, or did you do them because it would benefit you in some way...ie; volunteer at a homeless center to help people or because this girl you like was there and you just wanted to get with her? Motives. That is the path you choose to go on your own. GOD knows your heart. Even though you're helping the homeless folks, your motives are impure.
Yes, some paths do lead to nowhere. You just have to know not to go down those. The ultimate goal is the destination. Whether you choose the path of rightiousness or evil is totally up to you. The destination is very important... Heaven or hell.
Are you willing to put your eternity on the line? Where your soul will spend "forever"? It's simple for me. I choose to spend it with The FATHER, our GOD, living in complete bliss. Not in hell being tormented FOREVER. Think of hell as your worst nightmare. Then multiply is thousands of times. I'm not willing to take that chance. Are you? That's the biggest gamble of all time, if you're willing to take it. Alot at stake. The journey is simple... for me. The destination is the house of the LORD. Most important.

But what about for us that dont belive in heven and hell the journey is the only thing that exists. I know the journey is there because Im doing it I do not know where the destation is.

So, you choose not to believe. Instead of educating yourself. That is foolish.
The way I see it, you are choosing to be in hell. Now you know your destination. But, there is still time to change your journey. Both are up to you, journey and destination. Until you die. Then it's too late.
Heaven forbid, if you were to die today. Your soul would spend eternity in hell. Why are you willing to take that chance?
Why don't you educate yourself about GOD? There's many books out there. Ignorance is not an excuse. It's a cop out. You're either too lazy or too much of a coward to actually educate yourself. Are you afraid what other folks like yourself will think about you? That they'll not want to be seen with you? If they won't accept you as you are, or become, then they aren't worth the time anyway. That goes for anyone who is reading this. Yall are all in control of your own destination. Just a matter of which path you will choose to take your journey on. I KNOW my destination. I will be with JESUS in the house of the LORD.

Don't you think that it is odd to be SO sure that people who don't choose jesus will end up in hell, when you have no shred of evidence to support this stance? Are you getting this from the bible? The same book that is full of so many mistakes and inaccuracies about reality, that it's not even funny!

You're warning people about something that you have no idea or proof that it actually exists. You only believe it because someone told you, and you read about it in an ancient book of mythology. If you had grown up in a muslim country, you'd feel the same way about allah, and probably even just as sure about that as you are about christianity.

I used to be just like you, until one day I began to think, and realized that I was warning people of condemnation based upon an ideology that I KNEW to be true, without any shred of evidence whatsoever.

Hell fire & brimstone, that'll win them over! Let's scare them into becoming a christian! Seems about as valid as a forced confession. Why not just waterboard them?

Buzz is absolutely correct. It is the destination that counts. Why take a journey to nowhere? This journey will end in one of two places -- Heaven or Hell. Your final destination depends on which route you take in this short vapor called life. For those who do not believe in Heaven or Hell, one day you will. Right now even Darwin believes.

It is not odd to believe this with absolute assurance:1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

BTW, we have eyewitness accounts that this is a true message. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, James, and Peter all left us record. If you choose not to believe the evidence, so be it. You will live forever with the results of your choice.

jimmy77611 · 05-05-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

BTW, we have eyewitness accounts that this is a true message. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, James, and Peter all left us record. If you choose not to believe the evidence, so be it. You will live forever with the results of your choice.

The supposed eyewitness accounts were all written at least 30 years or more after the supposed death of jesus. Not a very accurate account to say the least. Enough to base your whole life off of and condemn others with? I don't think so.

You sir, are the one ignoring the evidence! Everyday science finds more and more evidence that disproves the bible. You're obviously choosing to ignore it, as I once did.

What scientific proof do you have that darwin is still alive somewhere, and that you and I will live on after death? Because you clearly seem to KNOW that this is FACT. Other than your flawed bible that is full of mistakes, what proof do you have? To deal in such absolutes, you need proof.

Typical, you play on emotions because you have no shred of proof whatsoever.

Abel · 05-05-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmy77611

Quote:

BTW, we have eyewitness accounts that this is a true message. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, James, and Peter all left us record. If you choose not to believe the evidence, so be it. You will live forever with the results of your choice.

The supposed eyewitness accounts were all written at least 30 years or more after the supposed death of jesus. Not a very accurate account to say the least. Enough to base your whole life off of and condemn others with? I don't think so.

You sir, are the one ignoring the evidence! Everyday science finds more and more evidence that disproves the bible. You're obviously choosing to ignore it, as I once did.

What scientific proof do you have that darwin is still alive somewhere, and that you and I will live on after death? Because you clearly seem to KNOW that this is FACT. Other than your flawed bible that is full of mistakes, what proof do you have? To deal in such absolutes, you need proof.

Typical, you play on emotions because you have no shred of proof whatsoever.

I gave you the evidence of eight men. If you wish to ignore them, that's up to you. Is this enough to base my whole life on? You betcha.

I don't condemn others either. That's not my job. People condemn themselves: John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

All of your scientific proof is foolishness to God: 1 Corinthians 3:19 "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." You have been trapped by your own wisdom: Isaiah 5:21 "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"