AB517

You are both right of course.
the point is for us to see that it is the same side of this coin.

AB517

What do you mean by curiously? This assumes knowledge that we do not have. Empirical evidence points to a possible “somewhere else”. The fact the most physicists talk of other places means it, at least, is not an irrational possibility. Math has many such notions, although I think it is all parts of one universe. We just do not have the technology to see. Nothing curious about it all.

AB517

you make me laugh.
In a good way.

ntus ... too funny

Abel

Romansh
A casual observer cannot tell how deep a well is by merely observing the outside as he passes by. Until you personally measure it for yourself, all you have are others assessments of it's depth. I still have not reached the bottom.

Remember also, it may not be the water that is cloudy, but maybe a dirty glass through which you see the water. Then again, it could be cataracts on the views eyes.

__________________
God loves you and I'm trying.

Abel

Deb
You have piqued my curiosity. I have two simple questions for you.

1) How can you say with absolute assurance that my God does not exist?

2) What do you believe in?

__________________
God loves you and I'm trying.

duck

Abel, I won't speak for Deb on the two questions you pose, as she is more than capable of speaking for herself.

I will, however, share my response to those two qustions.

1. How can you say with absolute assurance that my god doesn't exist?

I cannot. I can say with absolute assurance that you have no empirical or any other evidence of your god's existence.


2. What do you believe in?

I believe in the here and now. I believe that is all we have and how we use it is the mark of a life. I believe in the power of the human mind. That is what we have been given to use and will guide through our lives.

__________________
Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

debdodd

okay answers .....

1. I was religious for years and years, prayed copious amounts, worked in nursing, never saw any miracles only pain .... if your god does exist he is a hateful, vengeful god that doesn't care about the people praying to him ... only wants the adoring fans at his feet ..... if there is some higher being he isn't the god of your bible .....

2. I believe that we are on our own. we have choices to make. we have been given guidelines by wise-men in the past .. we can choose to follow paths that wise men/women have given us and find some kind of contentment, peace with our life but as for life and being here ... we are only here to pass on DNA and to guide the DNA of those we produce (or in my case adopt) to be good citizens of the world, caretakers of one another ... no fluffy clouds in the skies called heaven, no virgins waiting for us, no burning fires .... what comes after our death is the legacy we leave behind with those that we left behind ...

we should be good human being because of fear of a god's wrath we should be "good" because it is the right thing to do .... there was a time of ignorance when people needed that fear based book ..... and some still do need it ... but I do know what is right and wrong, I know how to live life and do not need a book like the bible to tell me ... someone else said it to live like christ ... to be a good and loving person ... I fail on occasion but I get up every time I fail and try again ....

I know you think I am lost but once I made the decision that there was no god ... clarity came .... doesn't work for you I accept that but it saddens me when christians spout off that non christians are doomed to hell (i.e. muslims, buddhists, etc) .... that just spreads more hate and bigotry in the world. I judge the man/woman by their deeds not religion they embrace. Deb

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

Abel

Deb
Your answer to my first question is based solely on your observations correct? If I reject your observations and the evidence you present, you will never convince me, right? Your use of the phrase "if your god does exist he is a hateful, vengeful god that doesn't care about the people praying to him" indictates that you are unable to disprove God's existance. Duck admitted that he could not disprove His existance either.

I will admit that my belief in God is based solely on my observations as well. My observations just happen to be different from yours. If you reject my observations and the evidence I present, I cannot convience you either. It looks like you and I are in the same boat. We both hold to our beliefs and are unable to convince the other.

It is on my second question where we differ greatly. You seem to agree with Duck, in that the here and now is all there is. (I'm sure you will correct me if I misunderstood you). How sad it would be for me to believe that this is as good as it gets. That there will never be anything better that the pain, suffering, hardships, and sorrow that we all experience in this present world.

I have hope in a future where there is no sorrow, crying, pain or death. That future is not death, in which we simply cease to exist. Without hope of something better tomorrow, what is the purpose of living today?

I don't worship God out of fear; I don't grovel at His feet because I am afraid of His wrath either. I worship Him out of love. I love Him because of that hope that He has set before me. It is that hope that I use as the anchor for my soul.

I've read, and re-read this several times before I posted it to be sure I wasn't being condesending or offensive to you. If it seems that I am, it is without intent. I'm sorry you don't share in that hope. -- Pooh

__________________
God loves you and I'm trying.

duck

Abel, the only thing that I will add to clarify what I said about the here and now, it that it is a joyous, wonderful feeling to have unfettered myself to experience this life for all that I can.

I hope that the belief that you might have some measure of immortality brings you the same joy.

__________________
Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

Abel

Duck, I am living this life to the fullest. I know of no one else that laughs as much as I do. No one with as many pratical jokes as I have. I have a freedom few others understand. I personally do not like being around others who are always depressed and mope around, (even Christian folk).

However, you must admit there is injustice, suffering and evil in this present world. My belief in that perfect world of immortality does bring me joy; joy unspeakable. I believe it is that very joy that spills over into my everyday life.

__________________
God loves you and I'm trying.