Religion encourages ignorance? - Page 13

**debdodd** · 04-29-2008, 09:32 AM

I think they sound like sound testimonials to educated thought processes and trains of thought ..... your viewpoints appear to be based only on the bible ... where as they have embraced theological, anthropological, historical, and a bunch of other 'cals .. you only base your thought process on the one book, the bible ... you seem to have a one sided argument but they seem to have looked at the bigger picture ....

Abel · 04-29-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

And all of this means, what? The bible is just a book. Abel, you are an impressive scholar of this book, but I am also an impressive scholar of the works of JRR Tolkien.

That's great duck, but how does the writings of JRR Tolkien help you to have a better life? How does his writings release one from alcoholism? How does his writings help put a broken marriage back together? How do his writings change a person from a self-centered, prideful, arrogant man into a loving, caring, compassionate individual? Can his writings bring a peace of security in this topsy-turvy world? My Bible can!

The Bible is more than a book. It is God's love letter to me. It is alive and powerful. When the principles of God's Word are applied to one's life, incredible transformations take place.

BTW, JRR Tolkien was a devout Christian who was instrumental in the conversion of S.C.Lewis from atheism to Christianity.

duck · 04-29-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

And all of this means, what? The bible is just a book. Abel, you are an impressive scholar of this book, but I am also an impressive scholar of the works of JRR Tolkien.

That's great duck, but how does the writings of JRR Tolkien help you to have a better life? How does his writings release one from alcoholism? How does his writings help put a broken marriage back together? How do his writings change a person from a self-centered, prideful, arrogant man into a loving, caring, compassionate individual? Can his writings bring a peace of security in this topsy-turvy world? My Bible can!

The Bible is more than a book. It is God's love letter to me. It is alive and powerful. When the principles of God's Word are applied to one's life, incredible transformations take place.

BTW, JRR Tolkien was a devout Christian who was instrumental in the conversion of S.C.Lewis from atheism to Christianity.

The allegories are much the same.

What I'm saying is that Tolkien's writings have had a more profound impact on my life than the bible ever did. To me, it is just another book.

And, yes, Tolkien was a devout Catholic his entire life. Yes, he and C S Lewis were very close friends, and yes, he was instrumental in Lewis' becoming a very devout anglican in his later years.

Abel · 04-29-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debdodd

I think they sound like sound testimonials to educated thought processes and trains of thought ..... your viewpoints appear to be based only on the bible ... where as they have embraced theological, anthropological, historical, and a bunch of other 'cals .. you only base your thought process on the one book, the bible ... you seem to have a one sided argument but they seem to have looked at the bigger picture ....

ded
You are correct. My views are based solely on the Bible. I hold the Bible as absolute authority. On what authority are those others views based on? If others wish to hold on to the authority of science, philosophy, or man's wisdom, so be it. Keep in mind though, science, philosophy, and man's wisdom are ever changing. God's Word is settled. It does not change. At least I have something firm to hold on to.

I know the opinion others here have of me and my views. And that's fine. Just remember, I'm not looking for answers here. I feel completely secure in my beliefs. I am confident in my foundation.

duck · 04-29-2008, 10:08 AM

The beauty of man is that we change. The beauty of science and philosophy is that it changes.

I pity you that you cannot accept that, Abel.

Abel · 04-29-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

And all of this means, what? The bible is just a book. Abel, you are an impressive scholar of this book, but I am also an impressive scholar of the works of JRR Tolkien.

That's great duck, but how does the writings of JRR Tolkien help you to have a better life? How does his writings release one from alcoholism? How does his writings help put a broken marriage back together? How do his writings change a person from a self-centered, prideful, arrogant man into a loving, caring, compassionate individual? Can his writings bring a peace of security in this topsy-turvy world? My Bible can!

The Bible is more than a book. It is God's love letter to me. It is alive and powerful. When the principles of God's Word are applied to one's life, incredible transformations take place.

BTW, JRR Tolkien was a devout Christian who was instrumental in the conversion of S.C.Lewis from atheism to Christianity.

The allegories are much the same.

What I'm saying is that Tolkien's writings have had a more profound impact on my life than the bible ever did. To me, it is just another book.

And, yes, Tolkien was a devout Catholic his entire life. Yes, he and C S Lewis were very close friends, and yes, he was instrumental in Lewis' becoming a very devout anglican in his later years.

I thought you might find this article and quote from JRR Tolkien of interest since his writings have had such an impact on your life. Taken from site www.kirjasto.sci.fi/tolkien. :

Although critics have seen in The Lord of the Rings allegoric allusions to World War II, Tolkien repeatedly rejected all this kind of explanations. "'The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision," Tolkien wrote in a letter in 1953 to Robert Murray, a Jesuit priest. "That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981)

Don't feel sorry for me either. In a world that is rapidly disintegrating, I am held safe in unchanging hands. It is right where I want to be.

**debdodd** · 04-29-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by debdodd

I think they sound like sound testimonials to educated thought processes and trains of thought ..... your viewpoints appear to be based only on the bible ... where as they have embraced theological, anthropological, historical, and a bunch of other 'cals .. you only base your thought process on the one book, the bible ... you seem to have a one sided argument but they seem to have looked at the bigger picture ....

ded
You are correct. My views are based solely on the Bible. I hold the Bible as absolute authority. On what authority are those others views based on? If others wish to hold on to the authority of science, philosophy, or man's wisdom, so be it. Keep in mind though, science, philosophy, and man's wisdom are ever changing. God's Word is settled. It does not change. At least I have something firm to hold on to.

I know the opinion others here have of me and my views. And that's fine. Just remember, I'm not looking for answers here. I feel completely secure in my beliefs. I am confident in my foundation.

then why are you here? to argue your beliefs with learned individuals that utilize more than one text?

At one time it was believed that certain illnesses were due to evil spirits and science has discovered what it actually is/was ..... how can only utilizing one ancient book be the definitive truth .... doesn't make sense .... perhaps it helped people make sense of things long ago but today ..... well, it doesn't do it for many of us ....

I don't see where you can say that the bible is "absolute authority" when you know that it has been chopped, changed over time, gospels that were deleted .... mankind is flawed and flawed mankind wrote today's bible ....

Once again I ask .... why are you here?

duck · 04-29-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

And all of this means, what? The bible is just a book. Abel, you are an impressive scholar of this book, but I am also an impressive scholar of the works of JRR Tolkien.

That's great duck, but how does the writings of JRR Tolkien help you to have a better life? How does his writings release one from alcoholism? How does his writings help put a broken marriage back together? How do his writings change a person from a self-centered, prideful, arrogant man into a loving, caring, compassionate individual? Can his writings bring a peace of security in this topsy-turvy world? My Bible can!

The Bible is more than a book. It is God's love letter to me. It is alive and powerful. When the principles of God's Word are applied to one's life, incredible transformations take place.

BTW, JRR Tolkien was a devout Christian who was instrumental in the conversion of S.C.Lewis from atheism to Christianity.

The allegories are much the same.

What I'm saying is that Tolkien's writings have had a more profound impact on my life than the bible ever did. To me, it is just another book.

And, yes, Tolkien was a devout Catholic his entire life. Yes, he and C S Lewis were very close friends, and yes, he was instrumental in Lewis' becoming a very devout anglican in his later years.

I thought you might find this article and quote from JRR Tolkien of interest since his writings have had such an impact on your life. Taken from site www.kirjasto.sci.fi/tolkien. :

Although critics have seen in The Lord of the Rings allegoric allusions to World War II, Tolkien repeatedly rejected all this kind of explanations. "'The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision," Tolkien wrote in a letter in 1953 to Robert Murray, a Jesuit priest. "That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981)

Don't feel sorry for me either. In a world that is rapidly disintegrating, I am held safe in unchanging hands. It is right where I want to be.

I have a copy of those letters in my library. Thanks for sharing.

The world is not disintegrating. It is changing and some of the changes are going to be a little rough. Try to understand that many in the world will freely and joyfully embrace these changes as much as you will anchor yourself in your fictional little dogmatic world of the bible.

Abel · 04-29-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

And all of this means, what? The bible is just a book. Abel, you are an impressive scholar of this book, but I am also an impressive scholar of the works of JRR Tolkien.

That's great duck, but how does the writings of JRR Tolkien help you to have a better life? How does his writings release one from alcoholism? How does his writings help put a broken marriage back together? How do his writings change a person from a self-centered, prideful, arrogant man into a loving, caring, compassionate individual? Can his writings bring a peace of security in this topsy-turvy world? My Bible can!

The Bible is more than a book. It is God's love letter to me. It is alive and powerful. When the principles of God's Word are applied to one's life, incredible transformations take place.

BTW, JRR Tolkien was a devout Christian who was instrumental in the conversion of S.C.Lewis from atheism to Christianity.

The allegories are much the same.

What I'm saying is that Tolkien's writings have had a more profound impact on my life than the bible ever did. To me, it is just another book.

And, yes, Tolkien was a devout Catholic his entire life. Yes, he and C S Lewis were very close friends, and yes, he was instrumental in Lewis' becoming a very devout anglican in his later years.

I thought you might find this article and quote from JRR Tolkien of interest since his writings have had such an impact on your life. Taken from site www.kirjasto.sci.fi/tolkien. :

Although critics have seen in The Lord of the Rings allegoric allusions to World War II, Tolkien repeatedly rejected all this kind of explanations. "'The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision," Tolkien wrote in a letter in 1953 to Robert Murray, a Jesuit priest. "That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981)

Don't feel sorry for me either. In a world that is rapidly disintegrating, I am held safe in unchanging hands. It is right where I want to be.

I have a copy of those letters in my library. Thanks for sharing.

The world is not disintegrating. It is changing and some of the changes are going to be a little rough. Try to understand that many in the world will freely and joyfully embrace these changes as much as you will anchor yourself in your fictional little dogmatic world of the bible.

How can you say that the world is not disintegrating? Children are killing one another in school. Child abuse is higher than ever. Every day the news reports crimes that are heinous beyond belief. Kidnappings, senseless murders, sexual crimes unspeakable. Seasoned police officers are stunned by what they are witnessing now. Not occasionally, but day in and day out.

No duck, these are not a few rough changes. These are people acting as they have been taught in school. "We are nothing more than a higher from of an evolved animal." You tell people they are animals long enough, they begin to believe it and act that way.

If these are the changes you are joyfully and freely willing to embrace, go right ahead. I choose to be anchored in the Bible.

Abel · 04-29-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by debdodd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abel

Quote:

Originally Posted by debdodd

I think they sound like sound testimonials to educated thought processes and trains of thought ..... your viewpoints appear to be based only on the bible ... where as they have embraced theological, anthropological, historical, and a bunch of other 'cals .. you only base your thought process on the one book, the bible ... you seem to have a one sided argument but they seem to have looked at the bigger picture ....

ded
You are correct. My views are based solely on the Bible. I hold the Bible as absolute authority. On what authority are those others views based on? If others wish to hold on to the authority of science, philosophy, or man's wisdom, so be it. Keep in mind though, science, philosophy, and man's wisdom are ever changing. God's Word is settled. It does not change. At least I have something firm to hold on to.

I know the opinion others here have of me and my views. And that's fine. Just remember, I'm not looking for answers here. I feel completely secure in my beliefs. I am confident in my foundation.

then why are you here? to argue your beliefs with learned individuals that utilize more than one text?

At one time it was believed that certain illnesses were due to evil spirits and science has discovered what it actually is/was ..... how can only utilizing one ancient book be the definitive truth .... doesn't make sense .... perhaps it helped people make sense of things long ago but today ..... well, it doesn't do it for many of us ....

I don't see where you can say that the bible is "absolute authority" when you know that it has been chopped, changed over time, gospels that were deleted .... mankind is flawed and flawed mankind wrote today's bible ....

Once again I ask .... why are you here?

I am here to bring balance. Doesn't seem quite fair to have Christian threads, Bible threads, God talk threads, and not have anyone there to speak from the Christian side.

Yes, I believe the Bible, and the God of the Bible. If I am able to believe God was able to create everything from nothing, it is easy for me to believe God could preserve His Word as He said He would. Psalms 12:6-7 "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."

This is my belief and I make no apology for it. I am very comfortable in my convictions. I am not trying to convert anyone. That's not my responsibility. I answer questions concerning the Bible, and Christian views.

I just noticed, you didn't call me Pooh. I'm a little disappointed. You're slipping Deb.