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General Religion Discussion about any religious topic. Example, other religious scriptures, Satanism, philosophy etc.


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Old 02-21-2008, 03:17 PM   #11 (permalink)
Jasen777
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Originally Posted by scientific_one View Post
I am trying to get a feel for where people go that haven't been exposed to a religious text.
Christians have alot of different answers for this one.

Fundamentalists would tend to say that such people would go to hell. They would point out that Romans 1 says there is enough evidence from nature that people should be able to believe in God. An exception may be made for children under the "age of accountability."

Those Christians heavily into reformed theology say that only the Elect will go to heaven, and if God has placed people where they won't hear the gospel then it might mean they aren't elected.

Some Christians leave it as an open question, but just trust God to be just. Some believe God will judge people according to what they know. Some believe that they will be presented with the gospel after death and be given a chance to believe.

Some believe that they could actually be right with God and serving him, even if they are following a different religion. That view is presented in C.S. Lewis' The Last Battle and is considered pretty liberal.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prashantkochar1 View Post
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Originally Posted by scientific_one View Post
I am trying to get a feel for where people go that haven't been exposed to a religious text.

If I haven't heard the word of God, do I go to Hell by default, or am I saved by grace?

If I go to Hell for not having heard the gospel, then I believe this paints a picture of our creator as one who abandons its creations, and is ultimately cruel.

If I go to Heaven by default for not having heard the gospel, then I believe that everyone should stop spreading the word. Because this implies that you only go to Hell if you've heard the word and then sinned. If you never hear the word, then you don't know what sin is, and therefore cannot be held accountable.

Thoughts?
By default there is no heaven or hell on this earth. Heaven or hell depend on our karmas or actions. Actions are of two types- good or bad. Good actions like- honesty, truth, compassion etc. bad karmas are violence, cheating, jealous, anger etc. You remember God or not but if your karmas are good, because of these karmas your heart will be pure. There are four things that are not in our control- birth-death, joy-sorrow, loss-gain, meeting -seperation. Apart from these four things, we make our destiny. This proves that your heaven is also in your control.
Saying that actions are only good or bad is a little bit too 'black and white' for me. An action in itself is only an action. Isn't it the intent behind the action that is more important?

And even then, an action that one person may consider 'good' (eg. being 'honest' and telling someone that they are ugly - silly example I know) may actually be considered by someone else with a completely different set of moral framework to be 'bad' (ie. being 'compassionate' towards the fact that you can't change someone's appearance and therefore you should keep your mouth shut).

D.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Talking Intentions are important behind any action

You picked up a good point. Our intentions behind doing any work are very important. An action done with the right intent is good karma.
For instance, a soldier is killing the people on border, on the other side a murderer is killing the people but there is a lot of diffrence between their intentions. The soldier is killing the people to protect his country and the murderer is killing the people for the sake of money, anger or any other reason. A soldier is doing his duty and it is his good karma. But in case of a murderer, it is bad karma becoz his intent is not good.
Our good actions bring us towards heaven and our bad actions bring us towards hell .
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by scientific_one View Post
I am trying to get a feel for where people go that haven't been exposed to a religious text.

If I haven't heard the word of God, do I go to Hell by default, or am I saved by grace?

If I go to Hell for not having heard the gospel, then I believe this paints a picture of our creator as one who abandons its creations, and is ultimately cruel.

If I go to Heaven by default for not having heard the gospel, then I believe that everyone should stop spreading the word. Because this implies that you only go to Hell if you've heard the word and then sinned. If you never hear the word, then you don't know what sin is, and therefore cannot be held accountable.

Thoughts?

I have asked this question of many Theist's. I always get the answer " Everyone has or will hear about it."
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It wouldnt really make sense for people to go to a hell, whether or not it exists, just because it is my belief that no one is quite that bad where they would deserve eternal punishment. Although there are plenty of people that have done some pretty hairy scary stufff, if you just look at their mental state, well ,the proof is there. All people make mistakes in their lives, some are just worse, and some just lose themselves to their own nonreality where what they do has no consequences in their mind, so they dont care. Of course, im not saying people are sent to heaven on default either, but if it had to be either of the two, i think it would be heaven. That , if preached to people though, would make it seem as if their actions have no consequences, so i just think many religions try to scare their followers into obedience by using the idea of hell. i cant say ive ever read the bible, so im not quite sure what that preaches about what the afterlife holds, but this is one of the reasons why the concept of christinaity doesnt make sense to me, because i can't see why, assuming if a deity exists, he would make is so his creations are sent to such a place, especially if he knows before theyre born everything that will happen in their lives.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Heaven or Hell?

One of the previous posters was correct that it all depends on who you ask. I have been a student of the Bible for the last 15 years and I've come across many different views.

Many mainliners would believe that children are born innocent and remain that way until they reach the "age of accountability." Although the Bible never addresses such a notion they believe that children or the mentally retarded are not held accountable for what they do not understand. They believe that for the rest of the population that on the one hand we are all born sinners who will perish in Hell if we are not saved, but on the other hand they feel that children and those who cannot understand are exempt from that status. Or in other words, even though they are still technically sinners that God will show special grace to them because "he understands."

There is also a group of "Reformed" folks who believe that even though God only has a select group of people who will be "saved" that children are also somehow exempt. They would believe, in so many words, that God has already chosen who is going to Heaven before they make the decision to follow him or not. Some would even go a step further to believe that God has already selected both who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell...but even if you are already destined for Hell that you are still responsible for your actions.

When I was a Christian I was not totally sure which view to take. I just settled with believing that if you were "saved" then you knew it and if you weren't then you would find out in Hell. I believed that Heaven was a place of eternal bliss and relationship with God while Hell was a place of everlasting torment in fire and agony.

The interesting thing that I found though was that the idea of an eternal fire laden Hell is actually one that has evolved over time within Judeo/Christian thought. The earlier Jewish writings [earlier Old Testament books] do not speak of a life after death. They might speak of a paradise type of situation for the righteous but they leave the impression that the evil and wicked will just be eternally snuffed out, so to speak. It only speaks of them going "to the grave" and not to Hell.

I also found through my studies that the mental images that Jesus used in his teaching didn't really seem in line with the idea of eternal torment either. The picture that Jesus painted was based on a real place outside of Jerusalem called "The Valley of Hinnom" which was a dump where the garbage was burned; the fire burned continually because they were always throwing stuff in there, but the individual items eventually were fully consumed. This led me to the belief in what is called annihilationism. It basically means that those who will experience "Hell" will experience a time of suffering but then ultimately their spirit/soul/mind will cease to exist.

So coming back around to the original question- are we originally destined for Heaven or Hell?

For those who take the view that there is an "age of accountability" they believe that if someone dies without reaching that point that they get a free ride. If they do reach that age and choose to reject God/Jesus then they get the hot plate.

For those who take the view that God has already decided then if you're not part of the club then you're out of luck; no matter how hard you try or how unfair it might seem.

My only challenge for those who believe in Hell according to the Bible is to make sure that their idea of it matches up with the historical, literary, and allegorical presentations presented in the Bible rather than the concepts of firey pits that more reflect Greek and Roman mythology.
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