AB517

I miss talking to my dad.
He was a believer in something but he just could not put his finger on it. I was a non believer at the time and could not help him.

GX

It was a very gradual process that took years. I first went from religious to what I call "religious agnostic" - meaning I do believe in religion but not necessarily all the specific explanations given by the various christian sects and that I dont have all the answers and am still searching. Then went from "religious agnostic" to "non-religious agnostic" or "agnostic" or "spiritual" (Im not sure which, I asked about this on my introductory thread but didnt get an answer) meaning I do not believe in the explanations given by the christian or any other religion but do believe in an intelligent omnipresent creator and an afterlife as described by people who have had near death experiences. I believe Jesus existed but not sure of his origins and feel that his true message was intentionally distorted and subverted by religion.

ThomasHenry

Then take the next step... You already know more than most. You seem to be well upon your way to understanding. Once one has become agnostic, it begins to pave the way towards becoming Gnostic.

__________________
A spark of the Divine lies within us all.

T. Henry

Jasen777

Why is becoming gnostic the next step?

GX

Im not sure exactly what it means to be gnostic so I googled it:

"Like Buddhism, Gnosticism begins with the fundamental recognition that earthly life is filled with suffering. In order to nourish themselves, all forms of life consume each other, thereby visiting pain, fear, and death upon one another (even herbivorous animals live by destroying the life of plants). In addition, so-called natural catastrophes -- earthquakes, floods, fires, drought, volcanic eruptions -- bring further suffering and death in their wake. Human beings, with their complex physiology and psychology, are aware not only of these painful features of earthly existence. They also suffer from the frequent recognition that they are strangers living in a world that is flawed and absurd."

I definitely dont believe in the above paragraph nor do I believe that in my particular situation that gnosticism is the next step nor do I wish it to be if that is what they believe. Are there several definitions to the word "gnostic"? Or is what I pasted above what you were referring to?

ThomasHenry

Never mind.

__________________
A spark of the Divine lies within us all.

T. Henry

Cleric_of_Reason

I was raised in a Christian home my entire life, my mother even read the Bible to me while I was still in her womb (or so she says). I was your ideal Christian kid who knew all the right Bible verses, knew the motions, knew everything I was supposed to do and not do. It continued on like this until I went to a Bible College and that's where things began to change.
I began to think. The one thing they constantly told me was that I should want to do the things every Christian should do. And yet, they forced us to do things like witness and pray and read five chapters a day until I didn't want to do it anymore. They still said we should want to do it of our own free will. And that's when I made up my mind to go back home to the community college and figure out the answers on my own. It's been three years since then and everyday I come closer to what I believe is right for me.
My only problem is my mother and sister don't know of my decision fully, and I'm afraid of what might happen if I tell them. My father is of no use, but that is a whole different story.

__________________
I'm tired of living under a desk lamp. I'm ready to find the real light.

Xtopher

I was raised in a "Christian" home but did not become serious about my faith until I was 15 years old. I was a radical and experienced a wide variety of stages over the proceeding 13 years.

Over the last 2 years I have struggled deeply with issues of faith to the point of being ready to let go of everything that I knew and held on to. I have a much more detailed description on my blog here.

The real kicker for me though was everything surrounding the resurrection of Jesus. I did an analysis of it over at my other blog here.

There are really some aspects of being part of the "club" that I really miss, but I just can't really reconcile many of the ideas that I used to have with various other things that I have experienced.

While some lose their faith and become anti-religious I have managed to remain neutral about things as much as I can. While I may have my own differing views these days, I can still have a conversation with those of faith without feeling like I must win them over to my side of the fence.

It takes a little bit of everything to make the world go 'round I guess.

__________________
The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next- Helen Keller

http://raging-paradoxidation.blogspot.com

Skepticologist

Whether it "takes a little bit of everything to make the world go 'round" or not, there will always be a little bit of everything for us to contend with. Congratulations, Xtopher! You've become a true agnostic!

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

Probability_Amplitude

I was born into a strict and observant muslim family, taught to memorise the Quran from the age of four. My father was a scientist and yet also a strict believer (theistic evolutionist), so I never really grew up with an anti-science sentiment in the household, but quite the contrary, science and particularly Biology were my greatest passions in highschool.

I left highschool a strict believer despite going to a muslim highschool and having huge disagreements with my classmates over evolution (my nickname from year 8 and onwards was "monkey").

I spent my freshman year in college being active in the muslim society on campus trying to spread the message. I started taking my religion more seriously and reading deep and ancient theological texts and philosophies. Through these studies I became aware of the numerous contradictions and unscientific statements in the Quran, Through my studies of the Ahadith (narrations of Muhammad's words and lessons) I became aware of his flaws and inconsistencies. I was also awakened to the draconian and barbaric laws which dictate muslim societies (these laws, whilst I knew of them before, did not trouble me much because I was indoctrinated into believing they were just from a young age, and also because neo-traditionalists avoid trying to implement such laws because they deem that society is "not ready" for it. In reality, they dont have the stomach to implement such laws).

At the same time, I started studying liberal theory and the history of the enlightenment. I realised, that ultimately, human progress was paved for by rebellion against religious dogma.

Still I tried to draw a distinction between Islam and Christiantiy, I told myself that the enlightenment was a rebellion against christianity, not Islam.

But the strength of the arguments against theism mounted up and I snapped. I resorted to Pascal's wager, that I had nothing to lose from believing and everything to lose if I disbelieved. I remember driving home one day from work crying my heart out begging god to give me a reason to belief. No answer came. I cried my heart out trying to find some form of justification for Muhammad's marriage to a nine year old girl. I could not reconcile the defences of moral relativism which are brought out in Muhammad's defence with the absolute moralsim that Islam professes. If Muhammad was truly an example for mankind till time immemorial, his actions ought also be universally correct.

At this time I began reading apologist literature. I read Francis Collins' Language of God. I remember reading the final chapter, it went something like this:

"...of all the arguments presented for the existence of God, the argument of Moral law is the strongest"

and I think that did it for me. Such a weak argument, nothing more than an appeal to emotion, is presented as the strongest argument for the existence of God? And by what punishment for disagreement? An eternity in Hell? It drove me to insanity to believe my non muslim friends would be thrown into hell for failing to believe in unscientific dogma.

So I forced myself to stop thinking about religion, terming myself a "pandeist existentialist muslim" because I could use my supposed existentialism to justify belief in the unfalsifiable. I used Kierkegaard's christian existentialism as a model for my own.

Slowly I drifted towards agnosticism and when a freind of mine asked me of my religious beleifs I found myself describing Muhammad as a either a lier or a madman. And yet still I was not able to admit to myself, verbally that I was no longer muslim! With such desperation and vigor religion binds itself to one's mind!

And then it was a friday, the muslim holy day and I was going out with my friend (the same one I had spoke to about religion). She gave me my first kiss, and when I looked into her eyes and I told her I loved her, I knew I was no longer muslim.


Sorry about the length!

__________________
I am free, at last.