kellid

I think any man or woman who has the forethought to protect the individuals of their country and respect the freedom of the individual is IMO pretty darn brilliant. considering the time in history the constituion was written

Vinterland

QFT!


So then, present your argument on why religion should be destroyed and why socialism is the answer! Btw, Symp did not introduce politics into the topic, Benito did.

My input is as follows, religion can be a very good thing I and am pro-religious to an extent. It, along with strict laws will better keep lay people in order not to mention that the health benefits to faith are undeniable. If someone can prove that destroying religion would make the world better off, then go right ahead. I'll stick my nose in ever statistic and fact you can thorw at me.

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Vinterland

I agree, but what do you mean exactly by "step back to look at the big picture". People who are extremely predjudiced have a very hard time accepting logical arguments. How do they accomplish taking a step back to see the big picture?

(Emphasis my own)

Are we?

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

jimdene

Vinterland, don't just blindly accept what you have read in any religious document. They are more than 2000 years old and obviously prone to alteration throughout the ages.
Think for yourself. As Richard Dawkins says: It cannot be proved one way or the other if a god exists, but in all probability he, I won't say he or she Girls, because you don't get a look in, does not exist

jimdene

("I think there is almost a ying and yang kind of balance...Because we live in a country that has freedoms somehow we also are able to distinguish what is truly right from wrong (most of the time) Our founding fathers were brilliant men. I also truly believe we must for as citizens keep church and state seperate as much as possible.")

Some Americans ask the question "why don't they like us?". Say no more.
You do not have a monopoly on deciding what is right or wrong, just because you have an obsession with your particular religion. I am an Atheist and along with Jews, Muslims, Hindus, teacup readers, we have an inbuilt Genetic reason that tells us what is right or wrong. We don't need an antiquated mythological book to tell us what is right or wrong

WilliamBlue

I believe that religion, as it is taught today, encourages ignorance and that allows our leaders to pretty much do what they want. It also holds us back in the scientific and scholastic arena's(there are examples of this). It also affects health care, i.e. the prejudice of not distributing condoms in places where they are sorely needed to block the spread of diseases.

Yes in some cases the fear of god can be a large influence on peoples lives, but I think it would be better to teach respect for your fellow human beings(treat others as you would have them treat yourself), for that you do not need religion.

__________________
When you dance with an elephant it's up to you to not get stepped on.
How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?

Vinterland

I'm an atheist.

"All generalizations, with the possible exception of this one, are false"
-Kurt Godel

I could label you say using inductive reason, but since I don't believe you have established an general rule, I think it's likely you do not have sound evidence. How and which religions promote ignorance and in which areas of life?

I understand and have read myself about the instances of religion interfering with intellectual progress, but that does not make it the rule.

Now, I don't actually believe this right now, but consider what happens when you eliminate a carnivore that preys on ungulates in a region...the animals tend to die by overpopulating and then die en masse by starvation due to depletion of food sources on their own account(I can cite sources). I'm not saying this justifies the Catholic Church's (policy?) on giving Bible's and not condoms, but you have to consider AIDS and its effects on the children of the people that have sex.

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Preacherman

Just a thing to think about before we go taking down religion. More people have died because of genocidal humanist regimes in the 2oth century than in all the religious wars in history. I'd keep it around even if i didn't believe, just for your sakes.

The bloodiest religious war was the 30 years war...Estimates say it could have been between 6-14 million. The Crusades may have totalled up to 9 million. 1. Robertson, History of Christianity: p168

Most other wars have not even approached 1 million

genocide by Germans in addition to the 6 million Jews there were between 15-30 million total killed by genocide (not counting the loss of life by war) RJ Rummel estimates the Russians killed over 61 million in their genocide and the Chinese Communists over 35 million by genocide. WW2 itself the bloodiest of all the wars was not quite 30 million.

Here is a quote by J. Bradford DeLong
University of California at Berkeley

But the greater power of governments to organize and carry out purges, the sharpening of ethnic conflicts, and the rising power of violent nationalism were, even together, not enough to trigger the genocides of this century. That required two political movements: Communism and Fascism. And both Communism and Fascism were movements that had economic ideology at their core.

I say you all re-consider the ideology of atheism, and the idea that all things humans, animals, plants, rocks are equal.

Also re-consider agnosticism. Your tagline says only the truth matters. If that is the case don't just say, "it matters, but I just have no idea what it is." Get busy, figure it out, search for the truth because it matters.

xxkayxx

Yes, i suppose you're right about that, and how they would
"look at the big picture", well, i'm not quite sure. I'll speak from experience though, my mom's a devout atheist who hates , and i mean HATES, anything even mildly "religious", and shes not ready to accept anything else, or question how things may not be as she sees them. Some people you just cant get through, no matter how much you may want to....

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

Og

There is a difference between being an atheist and doing horrible things and doing horrible things in the name of atheism.

As for your last part, not all agnostics consider themselves to be fence sitters. I certainly don't.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste