'Pan-' Philosophies? - Page 2

marmalade · 12-23-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

And as far as the universe is concerned, why isn't is possible to accept it for what it is on a face basis?

What do you mean?

I try to accept the world for what it is. My understanding of panpsychism is based on my direct experience and commonsense. I perceive the opposite belief as more likely being based on modern cultural expectations. I don't know of the world outside of mind, and so why would I arbitrarily assume that mind is a random epiphenomenon of evolution. Its possible that there is a world outside of my experience, but I can know nothing about this theoretical world. I don't know what might be a fundamental aspect of mind in the world, but, for that matter, I don't know what is fundamental even to my own brain.

I don't know what it all means, but I do know that all understanding(and all scientific observations and theorizing) begins with the mind. And so that is what I take as the basic beginning point of my search for understanding about anything including the world. I'm open to criticisms, and I try not to be too attached to any concept of reality even ones that seem perfectly rational and commonsense.

I came across panpsychism from a book written by Christian de Quincey. Here is a discussion about his ideas and panpsychism in general:

http://www.infidelguy.com/forumarchi...wtopic&t=16119

While googling panpsychism, I came across two other pan- terms. There is panexperientialism which is an offshoot of panpsychism. And there is pansemiotics which I know nothing about.

duck · 12-23-2007, 01:11 AM

Sorry, man. I was just joking around and really am not well versed in this aspect of philosophy.

I am going to do some reading and will join this thread at another time that I can actually contribute in a meaningful way.

marmalade · 12-26-2007, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Sorry, man. I was just joking around and really am not well versed in this aspect of philosophy.

No need to apologize. Joking is allowed. I was just being overly serious.

Quote:

I am going to do some reading and will join this thread at another time that I can actually contribute in a meaningful way.

Research it if you want. Plenty of people disagree with panpsychism. I'm sure you can find plenty of reasons to disagree(or agree) with it. To me, it simply describes how I experience reality. On that level, its pretty simple.

duck · 12-26-2007, 04:49 PM

Well, so far, the entire concept is rather intriguing. Not to say if I agree or disagree right now.

Stand by for an update in a few days.

marmalade · 12-30-2007, 07:55 PM

From a thread started about pantheism

http://forums.truthbeknown.com/viewtopic.php?t=1492

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tat Tvam Asi

I want to post a summary of the main points in the World Pantheism Movement to clarify what pantheism is all about. Most people don't really know. It's very similar to atheism but it leaves room for a spiritual understanding based on the sheer mystery of existence.

The belief statement of the World Pantheist Movement (WPM):

1. We revere and celebrate the Universe as the totality of being, past, present and future. It is self-organizing, ever-evolving and inexhaustibly diverse. Its overwhelming power, beauty and fundamental mystery compel the deepest human reverence and wonder.

2. All matter, energy, and life are an interconnected unity of which we are an inseparable part. We rejoice in our existence and seek to participate ever more deeply in this unity through knowledge, celebration, meditation, empathy, love, ethical action and art.

3. We are an integral part of Nature, which we should cherish, revere and preserve in all its magnificent beauty and diversity. We should strive to live in harmony with Nature locally and globally. We acknowledge the inherent value of all life, human and non-human, and strive to treat all living beings with compassion and respect.

4. All humans are equal centers of awareness of the Universe and nature, and all deserve a life of equal dignity and mutual respect. To this end we support and work towards freedom, democracy, justice, and non-discrimination, and a world community based on peace, sustainable ways of life, full respect for human rights and an end to poverty.

5. There is a single kind of substance, energy/matter, which is vibrant and infinitely creative in all its forms. Body and mind are indivisibly united.

6. We see death as the return to nature of our elements, and the end of our existence as individuals. The forms of "afterlife" available to humans are natural ones, in the natural world. Our actions, our ideas and memories of us live on, according to what we do in our lives. Our genes live on in our families, and our elements are endlessly recycled in nature.

7. We honor reality, and keep our minds open to the evidence of the senses and of science's unending quest for deeper understanding. These are our best means of coming to know the Universe, and on them we base our aesthetic and religious feelings about reality.

8. Every individual has direct access through perception, emotion and meditation to ultimate reality, which is the Universe and Nature. There is no need for mediation by priests, gurus or revealed scriptures.

9. We uphold the separation of religion and state, and the universal human right of freedom of religion. We recognize the freedom of all pantheists to express and celebrate their beliefs, as individuals or in groups, in any non-harmful ritual, symbol or vocabulary that is meaningful to them.

More about the World Pantheist Movement:

In the WPM we take the real universe and nature as our starting and finishing point, not some preconceived idea of God. We feel a profound wonder and awe for these, similar to the reverence that believers in more conventional gods feel towards their deity, but without grovelling worship or belief that Nature has a mind or personality that we can influence through prayer or ritual.

Our ethics are humanistic and green, our metaphysics naturalist and scientific, but to these we add the emotional and aesthetic dimensions which humans need to joyfully embrace their place in the universe and to motivate their concern for nature and human welfare.

In the WPM we revere and care for nature, we accept this life as our only life, and this earth as our only paradise, if we look after it. We revel in the beauty of nature and the night sky, and are full of wonder at their mystery and power.

Our beliefs and values reconcile spirituality and rationality, emotion and values and environmental concern with science and respect for evidence.

Why do we need a spirituality of nature?

Most people have a sense that there is something greater than the self or than the human race. The WPM's naturalistic reverence for nature can satisfy this need, without sacrificing logic or respect for evidence and science. As one member put it, it is spirituality without absurdity.

It does not require faith in miracles, invisible entities or supernatural powers. It accepts and affirms life joyously. It does not regard this life as a waiting room or a staging post on the way to a better existence after death.

It has a healthy and positive attitude to sex and life in the body. It teaches reverence and love and active concern for nature. Nature was not created for us to use or abuse - Nature created us, we are an inseparable part of her, and we have a duty of care towards her. It enthusiastically embraces the picture of a vast, creative and often violent universe revealed by the Hubble Space Telescope. We need a spirituality in keeping with this new knowledge, not one that seeks to deny or explain away parts of it.

It does not simply co-exist uncomfortably with science: it fully embraces science as part of the human exploration of the awesome universe. However, this does not mean we believe that science can answer all questions, nor that we endorse all modern technologies regardless of their impact on nature.

So why an organization?

Most people also have a deep need to belong to a community - this is perhaps the main reason why people join or stick with religions they may privately doubt. The WPM aims to provide a spiritual and social "home base" for people who love Nature and the Universe but do not believe in supernatural entities. A home base that provides the community support of local groups, and facilitators to help celebrate natural weddings, funerals and other special occasions in the style that people really want. A base where you can share your beliefs and your enthusiasms without fear of being ostracized or considered an outsider."

romansh · 12-31-2007, 01:45 PM

Hi Marmalade
why is this not called pandeism?

and what is the difference from your point of view?
In the meantime I will reread your original post.
thanks

tommi atkins · 12-31-2007, 02:59 PM

Regards reality existing outside of conciousness.
I think of life as a Giant MMORPG, such as World of Warcraft, When we log off, (sleep) or delete our characters, (Die), the server carries on, and although it may be poorer from our absence or indeed richer for it.
The fact that we may not be in-game at some or any point is only relevent to what we are doing at the time. If we are leading a 400 strong raid on Stormwind, then our actions will directly influence others conciousness. If we are spamming in Ironforge trying to sell a rusty hatchet, then we will not figure in the world.

harleylove · 12-31-2007, 07:07 PM

Marmalade thanks for the post, maybe people will get a better understanding of pantheism.

Romansh, sorry not Marmalade but from what I've gathered, pandeism is a more theistic approach. It has many shared beliefs of pantheism except it is the belief that a God created the Universe just like deism. In pantheism God is described as the Universe and everything in it and the Universe was not created by a God.

From Wikipedia:
Pandeism
Pandeism is a kind of naturalistic pantheism, holding that the universe is an unconscious and nonsentient God, but also that God was previously a conscious and sentient force or entity that designed and created the universe. In pandeism, God only became an unconscious and nonsentient God by becoming the universe. Other than this distinction (and the possibility that the Universe will one day return to the state of being God), pandeistic beliefs are identical to the above pantheistic beliefs.

marmalade · 01-01-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

Hi Marmalade
why is this not called pandeism?

and what is the difference from your point of view?
In the meantime I will reread your original post.
thanks

I know the differences between theism and deism, but I don't know how that translates when you add the trans- prefix. I've looked into pandeism slightly before, but I really don't even remember anything about it.

Maybe sometime this week I'll look more into it.

Pantheism(and panpsychism) doesn't require any traditional notions of an anthropomorphic God. Most Fundies surely would say it isn't God at all. Maybe panpsychism is better for it stays away from the confusing term of 'theism'. In this sense, I think someone could be a pantheist/panpsychist and still be atheist/agnostic towards the monotheistic deity.