Og

Evangelicals define christianity now? My grandfather is a retired united methodist minister from the alabama/west florida conference and was a preacher through all of the reformation and was shuffled around from place to place as his views on love and equality of mankind were unpopular during the civil rights era. I think there were many more like him and are today.

He sent me a book by a Jesuit priest named Anthony deMello. The book was titled "Awareness" and spoke of christianity in just these terms (deMello lived in india). In fact, Cardinal Ratzinger (the current pope before he was pope) banned deMello's work as capable of causing great harm and subsequently repealed his stance.

deMello is another example of a Christian who sees the bible and jesus in the terms I've shared.

I have an uncle who's a devout catholic who I had a very stimulating conversation with about the nature of the universe over thanksgiving and he found it a very invigorating experience to partake in such thoughts and to explore new ideas.

Those are just a few examples from my own personal life. I know for a fact that there are many many more out there. Just because a mass of high school equivalent semi-literate clods get together and claim that they're evangelicals does not make them right. Just because snake oil peddlers like falwell and robertson and graham make money and power off of manipulating this group does not mean that they are in any way in touch with reality.

Evangelicals are easily manipulated and if I ever did talk in front of them, it would be in a prescribed form that would manipulate their psyches in a specific manner that I had devised.

Tools do not scare me. You just need to know how to use them.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

AB517

I am doing just this

People are different when talking face to face.

Og

Furthermore, the behavior you indicate here seems utterly antithetical to the teachings of christ as interpreted by every person I know and have known that considers themself a christian.

So you're indicating that evangelicals are a brainwashed mob completely disconnected from the compassionate teachings of Christ? And you're suggesting that this is the majority of Christianity today? Just because their crazyness makes the headlines doesn't make them the definition of Christianity.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

greywolf90

this is the problem; that one group with strong opinions represent the whole religion.

Tomasz

That's curious, because atheists are the least liked and trusted minority in US, or maybe I'm wrong ? Who dislikes them so much ?

I never said that evangelicals were to set any standards of Christianity. My point is that your views are rare. You don't agree ? So tell me what's the percentage of Christians who don't believe in personal God ? You're the first I've come upon. You think it's enough to be right ? What's the point in being right if you can't even parsuade 1 man a year to come round to your point of view. The strangeness of your situation is that you have much more in common with non-believers than overwhelming majority of Christians. Doesn't matter you all read the same bible if your conclusions are utterly different from that majority.

Apart from that I'm disappointed that you didn't appreciate my Monthy-Phyton sense of humour You don't have to follow Jesus as far as sense of humour is concerned

__________________
It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts - Sherlock Holmes

marmalade

Here is a quote that sums up my viewpoint.

http://kaleidoscope-forum.org/talk/i...p?topic=1927.0

Og

This would be "hated by" the above mentioned mob of lunatics totally in schism with Christ's teachings. Also understand that people can't control an atheist (generally driven by reason). You can control the religious mob (people have done this all through history and most recent notably in the last presidential election). I can understand why people would fear something they could not control. Roaches flee from the light.

I appreciate what you're saying. But "truth" doesn't need a fan club to exist (like many religions think). It simply is. I wish the whole world could feel this, but that's kind of the point of Christ's teachings. The truth that he brings ends up placing him on a cross. The kingdom of heaven is on the earth and all you have to do is open your eyes to see it. You can't open peoples' eyes for them.

I do not believe in a personal god that is separate from me, for sure. I also do not believe that there is ultimate meaning to "me" as a bound entity with singular existence. I believe in a personal god, and that personal god is you and me and the rock and the tree and the sun and the moon. All as one.


Yeah, I understand the irony and do laugh at monty python. Unfortunately, its ironic and humorous because its not wrong. I didn't realize you were heading down the joking path on that one. It seemed like your posts were entirely laced with comments about peer pressure and why quantity must have something to do with quantity.

I understand that the elementary idea underlying all world religions is this truth that I try to share on these forums. I understand that people believing in christ as a literal being separate from them is the same as a child believing in santa claus.

The images are good. The only step remaining is for the individual to transcend the idol. That's something that no one can do for you, however. But understand that I do desire for people to know this truth and understand it. But the desire gets in the way.

Bottom line is that truth is truth. If the whole world of human beings on earth in our little corner of the milky way galaxy believed that jesus was a literal being or that the world was flat, it would not make it true in any sense. Truth just is, and needs no sword to defend it. That's the agnostic stance, in my opinion. You use this reality that truth is what will remain and you assault the world of your senses with every tool in your arsenal (this is called the scientific method). What remains, is the truth, just as a sculptor removes what is not the sculpture to reveal a work of art.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

romansh

Hi Og

A question .... the true Christianity that you have reached, using he Bible and many other texts.. is it the only truth? (I'm not being facetious... )

There must be many other paths to get to the point where you are now? And they don't necessarily have to involve the New Testament?

Just wondering

all the best ....and of course Happy Christmas

ps My wife got me my own copy of power of myth and pathways to bliss ..

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Og

Are you talking about the goal or the path? What I speak about is the elementary truth underlying most religions. Truth just is. Whatever path you take to get there is up to you and entirely based upon who/what/where you are. This is why there are so many different buddhisms that are peace loving and violent and that have all sorts of variation. Their goals are the same but they recognize that people are vastly different.

The truth is transcendence of pairs of opposites. Whatever path brings you in contact with this is fine. The ultimate lack of meaning to boundaries between you and me.. We're like finger tips. If you look at them, they look like they're separate, but if you follow it back far enough, you see that they are parts of a larger body.

The truth is not "christianity" or "islam" or "buddhism." Those are VEHICLES to the truth. Mahayana buddhism, for example, means "big ferryboat" buddhism (i.e. a vehicle, not the goal).

Sometimes, christianity (and others, including the eastern religions) create icons and idols that people believe are something different from themselves. Jesus is a great example. So jesus of nazareth was a distinct individual? Who cares. Christ is all of us and each of us. That's what the Christmas story is about. It's about the birth of hope and unity. That's what jesus' teachings were all about. Transcendence. Divine birth at christmas is metaphorical for a divine birth of a mindset within you.

It's what all of the acts of jesus' life led to. The counteraction to the tree of dichotomies (fruit of the knowledge of good/evil, etc) is what christ represents. Communion (eating the sacraments) is a symbolic act. His teachings are embodied in the Image and Birth of Christ and his body on the cross represents the fruit of the tree of eternal life (the other tree in the garden which is actually the same tree). His act of sacrifice represents death to sin and rebirth.

Just like with santa claus at this time of year, kids think that the christmas spirit is embodied in a single person until they grow to see that the christmas spirit is within them and was all along.

I hope you enjoy the books romansh. Metta and Merry Christmas.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

romansh

I'm referring to where you are on your path, presuming our goal is not aways fixed? I suppose I am hung up on the label 'Christianity' that you use, though I agree with you that it is as good (if not better than anybody elses). From what I have understood from your posts... the Bible is one of your principal texts, that you use with supporting philosophies particularly Buddhism, Campbell and others? My question remains could someone reach the 'same' point on the path as you without ever seeing the Bible....... ?

I still struggle with the word 'trascend' (and its derivatives) .... Can you (or anyone else?) give a definition for this, in plain language? My dictionary definitions don't seem to fit.
nice

nice

thanks

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams