Geshtinnanna

Oh yeah. I had the same problem. Must be a glitch in the matrix!

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GX

"So let me make my first question. Why are you agnostic, depite all informations we have access today, to get answers and give the ability to come to a own faith , even if it is atheist faith?"

Some of us here believe in God but not the bullshit, vengeful, neurotic God of fundamentalist christianity. Sorry for the candor, but it is my opinion that fire and brimstone preaching amounts at its very best to disinformation and at its very worst to spiritual abuse which is most likely just as negative as physical and other forms of abuse. But for the sake of insight, lets see what kind of "information" fundamental christianity has to offer us:

1) God is vengeful, wrathful, needy being that will condemn you if you dont worship him in the precise way he has laid out and do not follow his many rules to a tee
2) If you are anything other than a born again christian (i.e. Buddhist, Hindu etc.) you will be punished with everalasting damnation regardless of whether you are a good hearted, loving individual
3) If you drink or dance, you will go to hell
4) If you are a homosexual, you are destined for hell because "God hates fags"
5) If you are a heterosexual and engage in sex outside of marriage, you are going to hell
6) The Bible is to be taken literally and is the definitive book on all of existence even though it has many contradictions not to mention insane behaviors

Sorry, but this for me is the definition of insanity. If thats what you have to offer, I politely decline as do many in this day and age. I personally prefer to get my information about God firsthand from people who have had near death experiences and not from the biblical interpreations of some psychotic, egomaniacal fire and brimstone preacher.

Regardless, I wish you well in your personal spiritual pursuits.

GX

Mustainez

Well, first of all thank you for not trying to convert us. And secondly, read Dan Barker's book Losing Faith in Faith and you'll find out why I am. Rock on!

411314

Have you read the "proofs" on this website? They are rather unconvincing.

• The Proof of Science lists things the authors of the Bible may simply have
  • seen personally
    • Take, for example, the following quotes from the site
      • "Hydrothermal vents are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science."
      • However, the quote it mentions from Genesis 7:11 basically just says that water gushed up from the earth. While that is a hydrothermal vent, whoever wrote this verse may simply have seen water gushing up from a hydrothermal vent and wrote about what he/she saw. That doesn't require divine forsight.
      • The same is true for the one from Job 38:16, since a spring is a point where groundwater flows out of the ground. The author may have witnessed groundwater flowing up from the ground.
  • meant figuratively
    • Take, for example, the following quotes from the site
      • It is a proven fact that a person’s mental and spiritual health is strongly correlated with physical health.[1] The Bible revealed this to us with these statements (and others) written by King Solomon about 950 BC.
        • It seems to take the biblical quotes it then sites literaly. However, one of the quotes it cites is Proverbs 14:30, which says "envy is rottenness to the bones". Our bones don't literaly rot away if we are envious, or all envious people in the world would be puddles now, so it must be figurative. The part that says "a sound heart is life to the body" may simply mean "you feel more physically energetic if you are happy".
        • Likewise, the part of Proverbs 15:30 that says "a good report makes the bones healthy" probably means "you FEEL greater strenght in your bones when told good news"
        • Even if King Solomon was writing about the correlation between physical and mental health, he may simply have guessed. I'm going to randomly guess that people who watch more TV have better memory. If a study is done ten years from now that proves me right, does that mean God put the info into my head? Maybe, but more likely it means I made a lucky guess.
    • believed on faith and coincidentally right
      • For example, "All stars look alike to the naked eye.* Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others.[1] (*Note: We understand that people can perceive some slight difference in color and apparent brightness when looking at stars with the naked eye, but we would not expect a person living in the first century A.D. to claim they differ from one another.)"
        • Acording to biblegateway.com, the stars were believed back then to be powerful spiritual beings, some of which were pagan gods, so those who wrote this may have believed in these beings and believed that no two of those beings were alike.
    • guessed
  • Messianic Prophecies uses the bible to prove itself. This is circular reasoning. The parts about the prophecies being fufilled may be wrong, just as the prophecies themselves may be wrong.
  • Fulfilled Prophecy Dealing With Nations
    • The Scorecard
      • The part about Edom being "overthrown as a nation" is just one interpretation of the bible's rather vague assertion that God would "bring down" Edom
      • If one gives a plausible prediction an infinite amount of time to come true (never predicting WHEN it will happen) the chances it will come true eventually are not that bad, certainly not "all but impossible" as the site claims below the scorecard.
        • I predict that the United States will be overthrown as a nation, and become a desolation that nobody ever lives in again. If that occurs 10,000 years from now, does that make me a divinely inspired prophet, or does it just mean I made a lucky guess?
        • Notice also that the predicted events arguably didn't all happen in quick succession. The city didn't become uninhabited untill after the "Edomites" had been driven out.
      • "bloody history" is a very vague prediction
      • It's easy to figure out that a place will become populated with animals when humans are gone. Isaiah probably guessed which animals it would be by looking at what animals were native to the area.
    • The visits by Johann. L. Burckhardt and George Smith contradict the claim that nobody would ever pass through it in Isaiah 34:10
    • Why would God wait perhaps 100 years before carrying out his threat? The people who got the threat were most likely dead by then.
• The Proof of Textual Evidence fails to explain why the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls couldn't have simply looked at a copy of the Bible while writing them and deliberately copied it, or vice versa (I don't know what was written first).
• The Proof of People Living at the Time of Christ
  • "...Christians were strongly persecuted by both the Jews and the Roman government. If the New Testament writings were false, these two groups would have produced a great deal of evidence to stop the growth of this 'sect.'"
    • Perhaps they did and it hasn't been found yet.
    • Simply because the Jews and the Roman government couldn't find any such evidence doesn't mean it didn't exist.
    • Some things can't really be disproven weather true or not. How, for example, does one PROVE that Jesus never walked on water? Would it have been practical to follow him 24/7 untill his death to see that he NEVER walked on water? Can you PROVE that the Easter Bunny doesn't exist?
  • "...the New Testament writings (before they were assembled into the “book” we call the New Testament) circulated during the lifetimes of thousands of people who had actually seen Jesus’ miracles and other historic events."
    • How does this site know that anyone actually saw Jesus' miracles?
  • "No one ever refuted the New Testament writings as 'fairy tales.'”
    • See my point above about how some things can't really be disproven weather true or not.
• The Proof of Historians
  • This is only the mere word of dead people, and they seem to lack objectivity. Further, even if Jesus existed, that doesn't prove the rest of the Bible true.

If you have any questions or responses to my arguments, please respond. For further reading, I reccomend the following website:

http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/

xxkayxx

Eww, its one of THOSE kinds of threads *shivers* Like since im an agnostic, im going to be magically converted because of some bogus qoutes. like i dont have enough christian people coming to my doors with their beliefs, trying to recruit more members to their churches. I don't see nonbelievrs doing that! They'd probably be scorned at, because, rememebr children, you have GOD on your side, and atheists are BAD AND WILL GO TO THE INVISIBLE HELL! oh please..... as if there isn't enough bs in this world already. pray for my soul why dont you while your at it. You can say you just came on her to ask a few simple q's, but i don't believe it. If you want to know go google it or something.....sorry, but jeesshh!

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

xxkayxx

Sorry, that came of a bit more rude than i had intended I don't mean the anger directly at you, but there are aways those few people that are pros at making people prejudiced.

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

The An-Jel

I think I felt the same chill kay... laughin here!

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

xxkayxx

yes, well i had to just let out a litttle bit of anger feel much better now.....^^

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

The An-Jel

Evangelistic Christians remind me of the mentality in that movie " Bring It On. " Only done much worse.

At the moment I am cheering on 411314 does that put me along the same lines as the Christians?

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

xxkayxx

It's just a matter of opinion really. Each side is going to have their "evidence". It all seems overanalytical to me personally, like trying to find something, anything, out of nothing, just to prove a point( speaking of what godlovesyou is saying). It''s like the election w/ obama and clinton, each one nitpicking at eachothers "faults". I'd also like to add that what godlovesyou is saying doesnt seem too logical to me ,and if people want to come on here to have a REAL discussion, not just throwing random qoutes form the bible, i'd welcome them alot more than i would otherwise. Not quite sure what else they would have to base what they believe on other than the bible though...

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing