WilliamBlue

[quote=godlovesyou;19234]Uh OK...

If God is omnipotent he knows what is going to happen before it happens, right? So he would know that Adam and Eve would sin before they did sin and thus in my eyes just makes him a sadist for punishing (us) for something he knew was going to happen and thus not real. If he can not see into the future then he is not omnipotent and thus probably not a true God and not worthy of worship.

__________________
When you dance with an elephant it's up to you to not get stepped on.
How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?

romansh

Welcome godloves you,

Thank you for asking a question.....I think that is a good sign

Why am I an agnostic?

I was brought up Lutheran; luckily from my point of view the indoctrination was poor... I suspect our pastor drove more people to other faiths and reason than he would care to admit, (my Godmother was a rabid atheist). For me church was a cultural affair.

So how did I loose Christianity? The answer is not necessarily logical.... but here goes:

• God = the father, the son and the holy ghost...trinity. The holy ghost I could not get my mind around. It could be some thing that is in us all?
• Jesus I thought was an excellent role model, but I could not accept the details of the miracles as real. The conclusion I came to was, that although Jesus may have taught with parables, his important truth (story) was itself a parable.
• Although I love my father I could not see any godlike father wishing to be worshipped. If this does not sound like worship, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment", what does?
• Then if religious a god were a popularity contest then it certainly should not be Christian. This made me ask, if god exists, then which religion would he belong to? At this point it made no sense that god would favour any. So why follow a relegion? So became a tepid deist.
• I also questioned where my wish to be Christian came from; simply put, it was essentially from the society and company I was in. Spending time with areligious people helped me overcome these Christian societal pressures.
• Over the years studying science and testing hypotheses, looking for proof in the secular world, I tested these methods, at least in my mind, on the world of the spiritual. The conclusion I came to was I could see no evidence that god exists (at least none that worked for me). If god did exist I would not necessarily recognize the evidence. God could be knocking at my door now I could never know.... but I think it's kids trick or treating.

So I developed and grew into a proud agnostic.

Hope this helped

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

godlovesyou

might i link you to this web site :

http://www.sheeplaughs.com/realities.htm

Ultimate Realities For Non-Christians To Face

godlovesyou

[quote=romansh;19237]i might answer you with my view of things.

So how did I loose Christianity? The answer is not necessarily logical.... but here goes:

the bible explains that the holy ghost is the third person of god. God starts to live in all those people, that accept jesus christ as their personal lord and saviour. so he does not live in all people, but in all who have believe in jesus christ.

jesus makes miracles even today. god is the same in the past, today, and in all eternity.
here a link to people, that had experiences with god:

http://www.precious-testimonies.com/...gTestIndex.htm

there are differend kind of love. Gods love is agape. A love, that does not ask anything back. it has as well to do with will. many think it has only to do with feeling. when you obey god, you show that you love him. as jesus said. who loves me, obeys, and does what i asked to do. simply in believe in the gospel, you obey god. this is the beginning, and it pleases God.


religion meens : humans try to find god, and invent many different ways, they think, will bring them closer to god. but we, christians , got the revelation of the word of god. it was not invented by man, but god revealed himself to us. a big difference.

i didnt face social pressures . actually, i did face big oposition from my family, when i became evangelical christian.

all created is a strong evidence that god exists. pasteur said : from nothing, nothing derives. life comes only from life. from dead materia, a living organism can never appear. then , think abouth consciousness. where does it come from ? can it derive from dead materia ?
think about the atoms. materia is almost empty, only a powerful force holds a atom togetgher. where does this force come from ?

godlovesyou

[quote=WilliamBlue;19236]so , that meens, God should not create the world, and aloud good things to happen, and many enjoy God, and have a blessed live, and go to heaven eternally , because many reject god , and will go to hell ?

duck

Aha!!! There goes the guilt trip to save the unsaved. I knew this was heading somewhere. Just can't help it, can you?

__________________
Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

Buddha

My first post came off a bit harsh I confess. The Thing that I am against is that you are positive you are right, your betting your soul on it. But from what I see there is no proof what so ever. The only thing you have to base your beliefs on is a book written a couple thoudsand years ago by a buch of guys. I belive that religion was created to keep the masses in line. I think that most people go nuts if they can't have all the answers so they belive in religion. Well I'd rather be nuts than belive that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

__________________
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission
Ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite
All of which are american dreams

romansh

godlovesyou

1) That's what I thought I said but without the proviso of the cruel god that requires belief! A person that has never heard of Christianity will be without the holy ghost. To me that sounds like a strange god?
2) Does he? You say he does, I say he does not, without some sort evidence both of our statements are fatuous. What about miracles that happen in other faiths, did Jesus do those too?
3) I had relevation aswell and I give you a testimony, there is no god..... is this evidence, are you convinced, is my argument logical? Of course not!
4) Are you from an Islamic country? If you never heard of Christianity what would you believe? The pressures society puts on us are subtle and brutal!
5) Still sounds like a demand for an awful amount of love, regardless of its expression.
6) Is it? Hate, death, pestilence, disease, poverty, greed.... god created all and we are supposed to love god (with love that god created. God created love so we can love him?)....Does not and never will make sense to me. A very vain God?
7) I can quote brilliant atheists, does it make my logic strong?
8) Physics exists therefore god exists? Not logical. Just because you and I cannot explain a phenomenon does not mean something supernatural exists.
(Obviously it does does not mean god does not exist, but what does a Christian God have to do with the logic?)

Dear godlovesyou,
If I may suggest you should start using logical arguments with demonstratable facts if you want to continue posting. Your evangelism will frustrate and alienate the very people you are trying to reach.

I hopefully look forward (but doubtedly) to a logical discussion

all the best

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Buddha

You hit the nail on the head there, religion and logic don't mix.

__________________
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission
Ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite
All of which are american dreams

godlovesyou

the proof rout will not bring us nowhere. the quest is who has the best evidence to support each one's claim. are you agnostic, or atheist ?

if you are atheist, then you might bring up your arguments and evidence to support your belief, God does not exist.

I will bring my reasons, why i believe God exists, and then we see...



.wrong. i have more than that. i can observe the creation, which tells me the marvels of God. And i have my personal experience, and the testimonies of inumerous people, who experienced God and his wonders, the same i did.

i agree with you. However, i am not a religious person. I do not believe in religion. actually, how do you define religion ?


.even with my faith, i do not have all answers. i did not go nuts, yet.


i agree 100% with you.