Faydwyn

Fundamentalism, no matter what religion it is found in, is dangerous. But, it’s more complicated and nuanced than just they’re crazy and want to kill us. “We” have contributed to them feeling that way through “our” actions and inactions. I’m not saying they’re right; just that “we” can’t shirk all responsibility.

As far as the so-called “war on terrorism” being a war on Islam…I don’t know, but I can see how it could easily be interpreted that way, especially by Muslims. But it would be more a war with Judaism and Christianity on one side and Islam on the other, rather than just Christianity vs. Islam.

If it is a religious war, that’s not all it is. There are major elements of control and greed on “our” part as well.

Gringo

Hey Faydwyn,

Thanks for asking. I just feel that the radical muslim is not guided by realistic thinking (what I consider realistic). He has Allah on his side. He has virgins waiting on him. He has Paradise waiting on him. How can he go wrong. What does he have to lose. The communists did not even believe in God or an after life. They had nothing to gain by killing themselves or others.

My beef is not with Islam in and of itself. I am FOR any peaceful religion that does good for its fellow man. But ANY religion that wants to hurt me, well, I am just not too excited about it.

I didn't really understand your link. Could you explain why you disagree with me. And once again, thanks for writing.

Gringo

Faydwyn

There’s no need to thank me, I’m interested in other’s views. But you are welcome nonetheless. I’m sorry it wasn’t clear. The most pertinent part (to this conversation) of that post is as follows:

“It would be incredibly hard for someone to convince me that the “terrorist” threat is worse than what was going on during the Cold War. How are a small number of terrorists with planes or improvised bombs worse than Atomic Bombs being launched from both sides of the globe and ending most life in the U.S. if not the entire world? Planes vs. A-bombs. I think the atomic annihilation wins.”

My main point in this quote was that I think that the atomic threat of the Cold War was worse than that of “terrorism.”* There are no “terrorists” with atomic weapons poised to fire at us at a moment’s notice. However, in the Cold War we were in such a situation and if the USSR had attacked us we would have fired back, then they would have fired back, and then we would have fired back, ad infinitum until there was no one left to fire anymore. The threats of “terrorism” are nothing compared to this (in my opinion). Yes, there is the treat of small-scale nuclear and biological attacks (which would be really bad, don’t get me wrong), but these would be limited to specific cities and locales. If handled correctly, they would not be the threat to the entire country or the world that an all out nuclear war would be.

You make some valid points about suicide bombers and attacks, and I completely agree that radical Islam is dangerous. And you are right; their restraint is probably less than that of communist Russia (which is quite possibly a large part of why there was not a nuclear war). But these terrorists don’t have the resources and infrastructure required to be the kind of threat that the USSR was. It is possible that they may one day have these things, which is a good reason for us to try to stamp out “terrorism” while we still can, but they don’t currently. (We aren’t going about that very well right now, but that is a whole different discussion.)

Furthermore, there are other instances of suicide attacks and terrorism in history and “civilization” has still survived. We might not have been so lucky if there had been a nuclear war with the USSR.

Does that clarify my position? If not, please let me know.

Faydwyn


*I can explain why I put terrorism in quotes in certain situations, if necessary.

Gringo

I see your point. I'm real happy that never happened, aren't you!

Now, I am just going to hold my breath that one of those "terrorists" don't get ahold of one of them things.

Gringo

brig

Islam doesn't teach that at all actually. For all intents and purposes it IS a peaceful religion, and Sharia laws set out ways in which muslims and non-muslims can co-exist with each other. The problem is that the loudest (or the most visible) section of muslims, the radical ones, twist and distort any section of Islamic teachings to their own gain. For example, few people know that it is written in the Quran that if a muslim spills the blood of another human (whatever religion), he will never taste heaven.

However, it also says that you can shed the blood of your enemy if he is stopping the spread of Islam or trying to quell it, i.e. a holy war (Jihad). This is the part they twist and gain a following from, and we have all seen the consequences of this (9/11, 7/7, etc). They have also convinced themselves that the population of the countries conspiring against their faith, can also be held accountable.

The real issue I feel, is that politicians have seized on this and are coutering this as you would expect them to, i.e. the war on terror, terror legislations etc. The effect this has is that 'normal' muslims are feeling a little vicitmised if you will and are leaning more and more towards the radical way of thinking, even if it be subconsciously. This is a danger to everyone, this seige mentality that has you thinking the world is against you.

I know that I am perhaps not the best person to be saying this, having denounced my religion, but I would be very wary of believing everything you see or hear about Islam. For the most part, a normal muslim is not very noteworthy to the media, a radical one makes for sensational headlines. I'm not saying the media are biased against muslims 100% of the time, not at all, but they are hardly the most objective of analysts.

Unfortunately, it is my conviction that a storm is brewing between the muslim world and the non-muslim world and that the rest of us will get caught in it.

}SoC{Sumguy

um, wouldnt you be included in the non-muslim world?

__________________
"And now you've seen his face,
and you know that there's a place
in the sun, for all that you've done.
For you and your children.
You always wanted to beleive.
Just ask and you'll receive,
beyond your wildest dreams.
And you already know how this will end...."

brig

You're right , what I should have said was between muslims and those they considered their oppressors. Those that will get caught up in it, are those who care little for either side, and I would include myself in that section.

Faydwyn

Definitely.

I think that we have to try to stop nuclear proliferation in general, that includes our own as well as that of others. I also think that we have to look at the causes of “terrorism” if we are to have any hope of stopping it.

Faydwyn

Could you elaborate on this? What might be the causes? What things in particular have led you to this conclusion? I’m not disagreeing necessarily; I think it’s quite possible, especially if the current trends continue, but you seem more certain than I am.

brig

You can always count on there being hardliners in every issue. Right wing politicians and religious extremists in this case. The worry that I have is that moderate people on both sides of the divide, are moving ever more to the right. Moderate muslims now see 'the west' as perhaps not an enemy just yet (although some certainly do), but something they need to be wary about. The extremists pray on these insecurities, and take anything that the opposition say or do and use it as a tool to further their claims that the world is against Islam. On the other hand, you have your average joe on the street, who was perhaps quite indifferent to the Islamic faith, now see it as a threat to peace and freedom, because of the terrorist attacks and everything they see and read. Now, these people have little or no knowledge of Islam (through no fault of their own, of course), so their opinions and political slant will be centre-right/right, as the mass market publications are traditionally right wing.

This will eventually lead, and in some cases has, to friction between communties inside certain countries like the UK and beyond.

The most prudent point I feel however, is that the Islamic faith tells of a war between Islam and the non-believers (I won't get into the exact details of it here), and although I don't believe this, I feel the extremists certainly do and are actively trying to bring it about, because they feel it is their duty. Now the scriptures or the Islamic holy books don't say when it will come about, but if I remember correctly it is a sign of the impending Apocalypse.

Essentially, people are getting stronger in their convictions due to them seeing things that further their own agendas, i.e. muslims seeing other muslims getting killed in the middle east, and non-muslims seeing muslims perpetrating terrorist activities, there's little middle ground left. I just wonder how long we can continue on this path, before it sets off something that can only be a war.

I really do hope I am wrong on all this, but unfortunately I'm a pretty pessimistic person so I can't help but believe I'm not.