jor.pandolfo

I had an online religious debate with "Zachary." Tell me what you think. Sorry if I'm a but off with my facts.

J: Do you question any of the motives of the Church or teachings of the Bible?
Z: No...Huh? What is this?
J: So you blindly follow anything the "infallibe" Church teaches you with no thoughts of your own?
Z: No not really...Who are you and why are you asking me this stuff?
J: I read a post or two of yours on some group. I'm not trying to strip you of your moral/religious beliefs. I'm just interested. The stories of the Bible, do you believe it all?
Z: Yes. I do. Do you?
J: no, not really. What I know: Jesus existed, and with his disciples, spread Chrsitianity. The Bible is full of beautiful, insightful teachings, but I really can't believe any of it. There is no reason to believe when you look at our history which is plagued with corrupt men that rewrote history to their benefit. I believe the same applies to most religions.
Z: You are Wrong. The Bible is the direct word of God and if anyone were to change what is written in it they would have a plauge thrust upon them. It's ok for you to believe what you believe, and I respect what that...but please tell me what there is to not believe.
J: Here's a scenario: not more than 150 years ago, the great Church told people that if they gave enough money they would have their place in heaven. The idea that a person could buy his way into heaven. And guess what? People followed the Church wholeheartedly. So wholeheartedly they decided anyone who disagreed should be put to death so to be "purified." This was known as the Inquistion. This all happened because people held absolute truth in the Bible and Church. History now remembers these people as weak and ignorant. How will history remember you in 150 years?
Z: They didn't believe the Bible then...because the Bible says that in order to get to heaven you have to be baptized and have faith, not pay a fee...
J: They very much so believed the Bible then. But it's interesting how the Bible itself came about. Around 300 C.E, the emperor Constantine of Rome ordered Christianity to become the prominent religion of the empire. Constantine was a pagan until the day he died, but he thought that religion was a good way to control and manipulate the population. So he collaborated a bunch of books and then rewrote them to make them seem more believable and burned the rest of the books of no use or connection.
Z: YOU ARE WRONG. GOD HAD THE BIBLE WRITTEN, NOT CONSTANTINE!

ARE YOU TRYING TO OFFEND ME??????
J: No. And you are wrong on two levels. 1st level: i dont agree with you. 2nd level: God supposedly "inspired" the Bible, not wrote it.
Z: HE HAD THE BIBLE WRITTEN, NOT WROTE IT HIMSELF, ON THAT YOU ARE RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU AGREE WITH ME? DON'T YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS MORE EVEDINCE SUPPORTING JESUS'S LIFE THAN THERE IS FOR JULIUS CEASER'S?
J: I'm not disputing Jesus' existence. I know for a fact that he is a permanent part of history. Yes, the Bible tells the true history of ancient people, but they are exagerrated and altered to create: RELIGION. There are Christians willing to die for their cause of righteousness. There are Muslims willing to die for their cause. There are Jews willing to die for their cause. Who's right? None of them. We know very little about our world and our God. What we do know is the difference between wrong and right, and that's all we need. Leave the rest up to God. That's how i feel. Does that make any sense? Can you at least see my point of view?
Z: Yes, sort of...but it is twisted...The Bible is not "exagerated" it is just a bit complicated that's all...But it is all true.
J: What evidence, what reassurance do you have that makes you believe that?
Z: I don't need evedince. That is what makes it great. It is all Faith based. But if you want evedince that God is the only True diety...then I can provide it with some.
J: No, I have great faith in God. But you realize what you are saying? You can't prove anything in which you believe. I understand having faith in something that can't be proven or shown. But most times, people take that faith for absolute fact. They leave no room whatsoever for doubt or the possibility that they are wrong.

Z: I don't doubt at all that the Bible is a Fact. I just can't prove it to you. There is no way to prove it. It just sickens me that people today are so hungry for "evedince"...and then toss Christianity when there is no PHYSICAL evedince...it just drives me nutts!
J: Do you realize what you are saying?! Let's say you changed my view on things, but then a Jew and a Muslim came up to me and argue the exact same case. "We can't prove it but you have to believe." What should I do?
Z: I am not try ing to Force my beliefs on you! Sheesh...calm down. I am just telling you my side of things man...

J: Sorry if I gave the sign of me being upset; I'm not, but I am intensely interested in your answer. If a Christian, a Jew, and a Muslim gave me the exact same argument and told me there was no proof they were right, but I had to believe, what should I do?
Z: Follow who you believe to be right in that scenario...Be it God/Jesus, just God, or Mahamed...
J: That's exactly what I believe, but by believing in that, it's also admitting that the Bible, Torah, or Qu'ran may not be right. And that's all the point I was trying to make. I think religion is one of the best things that has happened to us and I'm for you man. Peace.

duck

I belong to a cute little fundamentalist site. One of the members a couple of days ago finally wrote: "Anything that conflicts with the bible is fraudulent."

My dad always told me that arguing with a True Believer is like arguing with a fool. You cannot win.

jor.pandolfo

It defintely feels that way.

jaej

lolololololololololol

He apparently doesn't know much about the bible, because it does NOT say that you must be baptized to go to heaven....

I especially like that part: "It's 100% true, but I can't prove it. You have to believe"

priceless

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girlinterrupted364

like umm tv evangelists. have faith my son, and by the way give me a $100 and then no worries, you shall be healed from your terminal cancer. thats what bugs me about my parents, their like, you just have to believe, its like, if took you to the edge of the grand canyon showed you the drop, blindfolded you, and then told you a bridge has magically grown, walk across it, would you? thats essentially what fundalmental christians want you to believe. jesus is the bridge between sin and god. blah blah blah.

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I wish on shooting stars

I am tired, Beloved,
of chafing my heart against
the want of you;
of squeezing it into little inkdrops,
And posting it.
~Amy Lowell, "The Letter"

The An-Jel

Does anyone else feel like this guy should be bobbing up and down around a fire with some Witch Doctor screaming: " Give me your first born to eat, God told you too! "

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El_Mariachi64

Hey Jon Pandolfo, while you are right in every way...

It just seemed like you were being a little bit of a bully, weren't you? We really ought to hold the high ground and not pick fights with people who are perfectly happy with their religion.

Now in the case that they try to convert you, then its fair game, and you can give them the intellectual ass whooping they deserve.

What do you think?

jaej

An-jel lol

mariachi64, i love your avatar.

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Unbeliever

I wouldn't say it's "like" arguing with a fool...

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The need for critical thinking is becoming critical, I'm thinking.

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pseudonous

Good one. I would have missed that.