Aaron

Argue for or against the existence of god using only factual statements. Remember, opinion isn't fact and biblical passages aren't either.

Just the facts.

__________________
"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

SDSJap

the whole problem with the religous is that they view the bible as fact

El_Mariachi64

Is this a rhetorical question? It sounds like you already know that what your asking isn't possible...hence this is why we're agnostic...

Aaron

What I'm asking is possible. I didn't say prove or disprove the existence of god, just support or oppose his existence using factual statements.

It's the same discussion/argument that takes place on countless threads in this forum. I just thought it would be interesting to try to remove opinion from the argument.

__________________
"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

Aaron

Yes most do - not all. I'm hoping to hear from the minority of theist that will play along and not post 5,000 word essays chock full of biblical passages.

__________________
"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

El_Mariachi64

hrmm...as best as it can get is that its all about probability. I can't use any facts to prove or disprove God...Its impossible. That's why I'm agnostic because its a logical dead end to try to disprove God.

The best that you can get is a question of probability. Chances are that God doesn't exist. There is no observable evidence for his existence, yet there is a slight probability, albeit easily disregarded, that God does exist. That's as best an answer as your gonna get I'm afraid.

Is it possible God exists? Sure, just like its possible that I'll win the lotto tomorrow. Its just not bloody likely.

er...this isn't what your asking is it?

Are you looking for something like...
against - "Fact, God did not struck me with lightning when I dared him to"
for - "Fact, the creation exists"

These two are the best examples I can come up with...and they are both fallacies. I still say that its impossible without making a logical error.

Aaron

I'm just looking for a little bit of hope that god might give a **** about us. A little hope that he might actually be there. I know that's what we're all looking for here. My thread was an attempt to weed out some of the bullshit opinion. I can see it isn't working so well so f#*k it.

__________________
"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

El_Mariachi64

Aw...Yeah, I sure hope he exists too Aaron

I don't want to just cease to exist when I die....but hey, if that's what's gonna happen, meh, I'm okay with it. I'll say it again, being alive is reason enough to live.

kjk437

Unfortunately, I think the lack of responses to this thread is indicative of the kind of factual logic we can apply to a god (i.e., nothing). I think we all want to know for certain that there is something there, but no amount of science or reasoning can bring us to that certanty.

Paul

Ok here goes.....

Fact: We (mankind, earth, the universe) exist.
Fact: There are 2 options. It had to come from somewhere or someone or it has always existed (the universe that is and all that is in it). If it always existed, then fine. The universe is eternal in itself. There was no beginning. If it did not, then it had to be created by God (whatever he may be like) somehow, someway (weather it be as in the creation story or evolution) because something absolutly cannot suddenly exist out of nothing without some outside force.

Sorry if that second one was a little long. If I can think of more, then I will post them.