The An-Jel

Well you threw out the point... I think you should not explain it to Jerry who might not understand it. I think you should think about it to me who does not understand you.

God is a poor target because it knows what it is!

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/im...et-Posters.jpg

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Og

I have no idea what you are talkin about bro

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

The An-Jel

Shrugs me either... I need to log off each time I come on here.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Faith

I noticed my post was deleted without any attacks on anybody, which shows something about the one who deleted it...

In case you were going to say "What?", well if none of my other posts get deleted ever, and then all of a sudden my last one gets deleted, it shows they had something to be afraid of. "What are we supposed to be afraid of faith, your dogma, hahah!" Sounds familiar. Well whoever delted it was afraid of something, otherwise you would have pulled out something else about your monkey theory.

Here's evolution...

Everything came from one cell in a big gaseous explosion *boom*.

World accidentaly becomes what it is and othe planets are barren wastelands...plants produce, monkeys come out of a little tadpole like thing, beat their chests and become humans sometime later in life, while other monkeys stay 100% monkeys...

Here is the "truth" according to scientists. If it came from one cell, my keyboard could have been human, the keys on it, the table it sits on, my game cases, the games in them, my computer and its components and the components attached to them, my paper, my pencil, my money, my dice, my carpet, the gum in my mouth (which makes me a cannibal *rolls eyes*), my steroes, my coca cola bottle and the coke inside, every paritcle of it, my mouse and it's pad, my garden out back and every plant in it, my bike, my printer, my chair and its cushion, my super I ate earlier this morning and all the particles on it...all could have been human.

This means you say we are worth no more than the contents in our bowels. If you say evolution is true, you silently proclaim that we are worthless germs, like what people spit out of their mouths, wipe off their shoes, and wash off with soap, which could have been human don't forget.

"But evolution doesn't have proof, it has observable evidence! I have lived so many years and observed a monkey go through a process of "evolution", and I watched as everything else accidentally become mutations of chaos. I saw a chaotic random ball of gas explode and create a mature orderly and lawful universe, and the evolved cells somehow developed personalities, emotions, and loved one another, and worshipped God and still do thousands of years later."

The Bible is the most famous book in the entire world and is the only one that has lasted thousands of years and is read by people all over the world in over 80 countries. For all I know far more than 80. It is still, to this very day, discrimnated and targeted by the unfaithful, ungodly, non-righteous, and immoral men. They spend almost all their lives trying to find "mistakes" and "contradictions", and deliberately seek to scatter the people of God. These are heartless, immoral men indeed. They pretend to care but don't care about your eternal soul which they are putting at risk every time they open their mouths to speak evil.

Is this you? If it is, will it always be you? I am serious, answer the question, stop quoting my words and turning them to their exact opposites, or turning around and questioning me myself. I heard you Og when someone was talking about "sacrifice". There was options of who you could choose to die to save the others. But you said just kill yourself because you wouldn't be able to live knowing what you were responsible for. But if all we are is a single worthless cell, then why would we feel such a way after being responsible for someones death? Why would we cry and feel the way we do? Why do we look at our children with love, and our husbands and wives with love? Why is their companionship through marriage, which is through love, and why do millions of people today still follow God faithfully and love him with all their heart, even though they have never seen him? Remember what Job said? I spoke of things too wonderful for me to know. My ears have heard of you now my eyes have seen you. So I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.

Wouldn't we all feel this way after seeing God? Becuaise once you did you would think back on everything you said, every person whos faith you have hurt, every person who you were responsible of causing to sin, and you would despise yourself.

Call me what you like, quote what you like and do what you want. But I swear, if you can't see God and the truth of the world through what God has created, a blind man you are indeed. Remember we are only men.

Job 38:2

"Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man,; I will question you and you shall answer me."

Job 38 to 42 shows man how little he knows.

Og

Ahhh.. I see why you don't believe evolution. You have your own idea that you call evolution. I don't think any scientist will have an issue with not believing this concept that you call evolution. I think you're on solid intellectual ground by rejecting the construct you describe here.

You might want to stop calling it evolution, however. That'll just lead to confusion amongst fellow human beings who you're trying to communicate with.

The irony here made me smile. I'm not saying it's an invalid question. I'm just saying that it's ironic. To clarify, I did not say kill yourself. I said: "Whatever happens, the experience will be traumatic and something you carry with you for a long while in your mind." I never talked about the choice being some sort of all consuming suicide compulsion.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Og

So, let me get some things straight since it seems that people have issue with a concept that they call evolution but which doesn't seem to actually represent scientific observation.

I'm first going to assume that creation didn't occur such that everything was in place such that the machinery of the world implies billions of years of existence when its really only 6000. There's no way to converse about this as its just undisprovable and untestable. Its pretty much got no bearing on any way that we interact with anything.

Age of the Universe
What problem do you have with interferometry or radioactive dating? What part of cosmology and radio astronomy do you disagree with that sets a date for the age of the universe? Do you know about the background radiation? Do you know how light from distant stars takes millions of years to get here and do you know how interferometry can geometrically trace back the source of the light in space? Do you know how radio telescopes can look into deep space and detect (see) photons from events near what is (for convenience sake) referred to as the big bang?

Is it only that it conflicts with what someone has interpreted that the bible says (literally)?

Nature of life
What is it about DNA that you reject? It's existence all together? You reject that cancers occur or that there are non-cancerous mutations that are propagated? You reject that living organisms discriminate their mates? You reject that nature is harsh on life and that creatures that are less fit to the environment die out more readily?

What is it about the chemical nature of life and cell biology that makes you think that life is anything different than non-life? What is it about carbon and nitrogen and hydrogen in certain forms that make you think it couldn't form that way on it's own compared to carbon and nitrogen and hydrogen in other forms?

Do you know about stable conformations? Do you reject how membranes actively form due to the hydrophobic nature of oils (carbon chains)?

----------------

I'm curious what exactly it is that you folks reject about the overarching theory of evolution? The time scales involved or the systems involved? What scientific evidence for cosmology and genetics do you reject and why?

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Og

How about this:
Do you reject the following?

1) that, for example, Uranium has a half life of 700 million years

2) That looking deep into space with radio telescopes and light telescopes we can see older and older stars and organization of matter as they were much further in the past.

3) That these stars are the sources of the heavier elements (i.e. the galactic furnaces create the heavier elements and then disperse them in novas)

4) That these heavier elements were produced in a certain predictable way and that the heavier elements later clumped into planets (or other stars)

5) That we can use what we see deep in the universe using telescopes about the nature of stars, interferometry telling us their distance and the age of their photons, and the radioactive nature of the uranium isotopes on earth to determine the age of the earth?


Be clear about what it is you reject about time scales and processes involved in the systems which the scientific theory of evolution describes.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Faith

Assuming you have been alive over 700 million years to know all that?

Og

You're saying that we can not see photons from stars very far away and use quantum spectroscopy on their light to determine the chemical makeup of the material within them? You do realize that photons are parts of radioactive decay and that radioactive decay is a very regular process (hence the dating period).

What if I told you that instead of uranium having a half life of 700 million years, i told you that uranium had a one fourteen millionth life every one year?

Would that change anything? If it would, then your certifiably irrational by any definition.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

jaej

SPAM!!!

Faith, I just don't understand you. In the face of all evidence that can be realistically given on a forum, you still cling to comfort and security and ignorance.

Alive for 700 million years?
Do you know how math works faith?

__________________
Μολὼν Λαβέ

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate