Faith

"There is no fossil evidence bearing on the question of insect origin." -Frank M. Carpenter, evolutionist

"The geological record has so far provided no evidence as to the origin of fishes" R. J. Norman, evolutionist

"If there has been evolution of life, the absence of the requisite fossils in the rocks older than the Cambarian is puzzling." Marshall Kay and Edwin H. Colbert, evolutionists

"The real origin of horses is unknown." -Tracy I. Storer, evolutionist

"The best place to start evolution of the vertabrates is the imagination." -Homer W. Smith, evolutionist

"As yet we have not been able to trace the phylogenetic history of a single group of modern plants from it's beginning to the present." -C. A. Arnold, evolutionist

"...but I still think that to the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation." -E. J. H. Corner, evolutionist

"The first and most important steps of animal evolution remain even more obscure than those of plant evolution." -Paul B. Weiss, evolutionist

Differences between Ape and man:

Man- Less acute facial angle, small canine teeth, parabolic teeth arangement, smalled jawbone significantly, skull attaches to spinal collumn at bottom of skull, neck muscles at bottom of skull, cranial capacity between 700 and 2200 cc

Ape- large canine teeth, slightly rectangular teeth arangement, broader molars, larger jawbone quite significantly, spinal collumn attaches near back of skull, neck muscles at the back of skull, cranial capacity between 100 and 650 cc

"Extinct creatures"

First I would like to mention the type of monkey that was supposed to be extinct for hundreds of millions of years. Over 40 of them were discovered on an island, alive.

"For many years, evolutionists taught that the coelacanth was the ancestor of the first anphimbians. The fish were often depicted crawling onto land from shallow water. According to evolution, coelacanths should have been extinct about 60 million years ago. Evolutionists were so confident of this conclusion that they used the coelacanth as an index fossil.

In 1938 however, a live coelcanth was caught and found to match the fossil version in every detail; since then, more than a dozen have been captured. Evolutionists were surprised to find that the coelacanths are deep-sea fish, and as a result are unlikely to ever crawl out on land! Their internal organs are also completely fishlike and bear no reseblence to those of amphibians."

"In 1994, many evolutionists were astounded when a grove of large "Jurassic" trees were found alive and well in the deep recesses of an Australian rain forest. In the fossil record, these trees (dubbed Wollemi pines) are often found in the same strata as the dinosaurs. One Australian botanist said that the discovery was "the equivelent of finding a small dinosaur still alive on earth."

Other "living fossils" that "mysteriously" disapeared from the fossil record but are still living today include the tuatara, a reptile which supposedly became extinct 135 milliong years ago; a type of mollusk (Neopilina galatheae) said to have become extinct 280 million years ago; and a "primitive" Paleozoic crustacean (Hutchinsoniella macrocantha) thought to have become extinct 300 million years ago.

Some scientists speculate that even more interesting creatures may potentialy still exist as "living fossils." On April 25, 1977, a Japanese commercial fishing vessel snagged the rotting carcass of a large, unidentified sea creature off the coast of New Zealand; scientists estimated that the creature had been dead about a month. Although the crew did not bring the badly decaeyed carcass aboard ship for fear that it would spoil their valuable cargo, the examined and photographed it as it hung over the stern of the vessel and then dropped it back into sea. Scientists saw that it closely resembled a plesiosaur, a dinosaur-like sea creature thought to have become extinct 65 million years ago."

"Even fossils that do not "disappear" from the fossil reccord can cause problems for the theory of evolution. Horseshoe crabs, for example, supposedly evolved in the beginning of the Triassic period, 230 million years ago; however, fossil horseshoe crabs are identical to modern horseshoe crabs. The ever present cockroach, said to have evolved 320 million years ago, also remains unchanged. In fact, most insects, and many other modern animals, are identical to their fossil counterparts in nearly every aspect."

Ironic how God prophesied to the people thousands of years ago the theories people would have today about all things continuing as they were since the beginning of creation. And when scientists said that all these creatures mentioned were extinct, the are found recently after.

2Peter 3:3-6

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Luke 12 54:56

Jesus said also to the people, "When you see a cloud comnig up in the west, at once you say that it is going to rain-and it does. And when you feel the south wind blowing, you say that it is going to get hot-and it does. Hypocrites! You can look at the earth and sky and predict the weather; why, then, don't you know the meaning of this present time?


Effects of The Flood

Keep this in mind, "In order for a plant or animal to become a fossil, it must be protected from scavengers and decomposition. Most of the time, this occurs when the animal is quickly burried by water-borne sediments-conditions like those we would expect to be present upon the earth during and immediately following a worldwide flood."

"Darwin and other early evolutionists believed that the fossil record we see is the result of the slow accumalation of fossils over millions, even billions, of years. But the very existence of a fossil implies catastrophic burial. This is true because in order for a fossil to form, it must be burried quickly, before it decays and its bones are scattered or decomposed.

In the fossil record, we often find millions of organisms, predator and prey alike, jumbled together in mass sedimentary graves that imply sudden, violent burrial.

A hill near Agate springs, Nebraska, contains the fossilised and closely packed bones of about 9000 animals, including rhinoceroses, camels, giant boars, and other exotic animals, all jumbled together. It would appear that whole heards were destroyed by some great catastrophe that threw their bodies together quickly and violently. Because the bones show none of the usual signs of weathering or mutilation by scavengers, geologists conclude that the animals were buried quickly before the elements and the scavengers could do their work.

Fishes have been found entombed in beds of fossils that extend for miles. These beds are found in many places in all parts of the globe, and the fossils generally indicate that the fishes died and were buried suddenly. It is rare for any fish to be fossilized today, yet many fossil beds contain over a billion fish all jumbled together. The large number of fossils seems to indicate that the fishes were alarmed and fleeing danger when death overtook them.

In Bergundy, France, there stands an isolated hill more than 1000 feet above the surrounding plain. Near the top of this hill is a fissure crowded with fossilized animal skeletons. These fossils are unusual in that the skeletons are of animals which normally have a predator-prey relationship; predators are found right alongside animals that would normally be their prey. It seems that the animals scaled this hill together, died, and were burried in a common grave. One could expect to find predators and prey burried alongside eachother on this lonely hill if the animals were attempting to escape rising flood waters.

6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

brig

So..... because Science has yet, and I emphasise the use of the word yet, to prove something, it automatically becomes a proof of God? How very convenient.

Science is not infallible, and no one claims that it is. But nor does it need speculation, conjecture, supposition and coincidences as foundations of proof unlike Theism.

Og

Science proves nothing. There is no proof for evolution.
Only boatloads of evidence. Science does not deal in proof. It never has. It only provides evidence. Fundies like "Faith" think that this is a weakness when its science's greatest strength.

It is kind of cute how someone could touch on little zoological/paleontology quotes from "evolutionists" (whatever they are) and give no listing of credentials or degrees from accredited universities. It'd also be nice to get peer reviewed journal articles that catalog their findings. I have access to most journals through my university and could readily look them up. If these are observable facts that supposedly clearly counter the theory of evolution, then pony up the peer reviewed reports verified by multiple independent agencies!

It's also peculiar that there is zero mention of DNA in this thread.

Faith is silly. He says that doubting some things is evil, but he thinks it's ok to doubt other things (like evolution). I suppose he's the one that somehow arbitrarily decides what to doubt and what not too. Talk about reinforcing his own delusion.

I suppose that his response to the request for journal articles will be some commentary about the mass collusion of the entire scientific community Reinforcing his own delusions and insanely paranoid about a global community of competing elements too.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Faith

Oh, so it's "Evidence". Ok then...

I would like to see this monkey you have in your closet in the middle of evolution...

Og

Heh.. Keep on avoiding any substance. Where's your peer reviewed evidence of the above assertions? Give me journal title, volume, and page number.

And while you're at it, get it through your head that doubt and holes in theories are where scientists thrive and where you cower due to fundamental attitude differences. Holes are where the scientists congregate to discover new things. Holes in theories scare the crap out of dogmatic people who are under satan's thumb. Holes in theories spur excitement and investigation in scientists.

Sure there are holes! And they get filled slowly as we learn more. Evolution is simply a description of evidence.

You go on and make your WILD and UNFOUNDED assertions without any corroborating evidence. You ignore the questions for credentials and incredulity. You ignore the call for peer review or for a background in related fields when you wish to criticize a theory.

You don't get that we WELCOME holes and contradictions. They lead us to the truth.

That's the fundamental difference between people with our respective mentalities. You offer this baseless blind (valueless) acceptance without doubt. We offer nothing of the kind.

Our's is empowering. Your's is an opiate and ends with you cowering in your mind afraid to touch the controls.

Bring on the doubt. Bring it on. Shine light in the holes.

This post offers none of that. It offers unfounded crap designed to sound important to lay people, when, in fact, it offers nothing valuable in any way whatsoever.

Want to prove me wrong? Give me a bibliography. Let me know the backgrounds and experience of the people delivering your claims. Give more context and peer review and incredulity.

But then again, that is entirely not your world. I imagine you like to blindly swallow this garbage in the same way you blindly swallow any western religious text that somehow meshes with what you choose to believe. Go on being arbitrary. I prefer foundation that is not sand.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

George

Hmm.. interesting.

Don't think I can stay out of this one

It's late but I'll definitely put my 2 cents in tomorrow.

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Faith

Wow, sounds like your own post. And when you said, "I imagine you like to blindly swallow this garbage", it seems weird because when things have scientific eveidence if you can even say evolution has that, you usualy swallow it right up. But if it proves God right, no, it can't be! You can't take responsibility for your creator, you must find something to say against it.

It is funny, because you can believe in evolution which you have never seen, but not God who you haven't seen, but who's creation is visible all around you.

Come Satan, bring it on. You have already lost.

John 12:31
"Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out."

1 John 3:8
"The Son of God was revealed for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."

No, I am not saying you are Satan OG. But spiritualy he is visible within you. You deny him having any control over you because you feel all-knowing and are arrogant.
And to say that Satan does not exist is inappropriate theologically for at least two reasons:

On the one hand, saying Satan does not exist would mean denying the reality of the evil that plagues human life in this world. That evil is expressed, not so much through sinful choices and actions by human persons, as it is through the human institutions that so often end up creating negative and evil consequences instead of the positive, good consequences envisioned. This perverseness seems to have a will and power of its own which human beings are unable to avoid or overcome.
In addition, denying Satan's existence would be to claim a level of knowledge and insight that human beings do not have. It would be a very arrogant claim to a kind of all-knowing that finite creatures do not possess.

The An-Jel

Incidently I posted in another thread that while Faith's evolutionists do not believe precisely in Darwinism to be true they seem to believe in similar sciences: Punctuated Equilibrium (this theory is unable to prove as it seems mutable with Darwinism to me anyway) and Neo-Darwinism (this theory doesn't accept a certain criteria that Darwinism accepts.) While they don't believe in the great flood they believe in something about as ludicrous because it is different and something they can publish books with. I find this flaw with a lot of scientists. A scientist wants a name in the history books and they will ignore proof for their own form of manipulated proof.

I love Astrophysics: I heard this one theory that these Astrophysicists came up with: We don't live so long as the stars because we live so close to a black hole that is at the center of our universe. It manipulates our biostructures. I think that light and energy according to popular theory is just the opposite. While distorted by a blackhole it appears that we would live longer (Einstein) and see our loved ones pass before our eyes the closer we got to the blackhole. Our lifespans would be extended not shortened.

Theories are theories... whether they be ludicrous or no... they are proven true by the preponderonce of the evidence.

It is not a time for Religious people to say wow they are arguing and sneak behind the scene to manipulate general evidence and claim it all to be wrong because they don't want to believe it. Your view of what actually the God or whatever is out there if there is anything doing anything out there (I don't know and I doubt anybody knows right now what or who this god if there is one may be) is actually doing with the Universe.

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Og

Heh.. you don't swallow scientific evidence. It simply is observation. No one swallows it.. you can repeat it for yourself if you don't believe it.

You continue to present what you call facts and still refuse to provide supporting documents. You will not show proper controls and procedure for your findings.

Instead, "the devils is working in you," you exclaim. Classic brainwashing. Assault the person delivering the argument instead of the argument itself. You couldn't get more classic of an expression of being brainwashed.

Until you illustrate your references for the above claims (instead of these little clips attributed to random people that you label "evolutionists") your claims will have absolutely no merit.

You continue to simply ignore the fact that science claims to PROVE (read: absolutely know) NOTHING. You miss the fundamental point about science in that it approaches truth in the same way a sculptor makes a statue. It removes what is not the statue.

That's the wonderful thing about the scientific process. Strength in doubt.

You continue to utterly miss the point. You make the arrogant claims. Science is the sincere and humble answer.

Post your references from peer reviewed journals from your claims, or sit down.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Faith

You continue to call it eveidence. Evolutionists have seen NOTHING whatsoever of evolution. In fact, there are so many things against evolution from science itself and from observation, that I couldn't make enough posts and threads to fit in into this forum. Evolutionists are begining to doubt their own dating systems, as they recently tested their dating system on 200 year old fossil, and their radiometric dating said it was 3.1 million years old.

And when they discover that the supposed descendents of ceratin animals are burried below their supposed ancestors, they say it was a shift in the soil which somehow made them switch places and still leaving the soil undisturbed. As well, they have made many discoveries of animals that shouldn't have existed at the time periods according to science, burried together, and all the discoveries of the cities in the past that were exactly how they were said in the Bible, yet "impossible" back then, they were left speachless.

Animals scaled hills all over the world together, predator and pray side by side, tombs of fossils that had thousands of fossils and different types of animals that according to evolutionists, shouldn't have existed in the same time periods as I said. When they died their bodies were thrown together and were burried immediately on the hills they tried to escape too.