The Contradiction Of Evolution - Page 4

AB517 · 12-30-2007, 08:11 PM

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Originally Posted by harleylove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Og

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by Og

The notion of god as a separate actor/being on an ultimate scale is demonstrably false. That is not the way the UNIverse works.

We disagree here.

Unless you are talking about a religious God, then I agree.

It is not demonstrably false. This is just flat out wrong.
Could you please explain what you mean?
If you know how the universe works ... your the first.

The notion of an entity with intrinsic identity is illusion. A flower is made up 100% of non flower parts. Same with a tornado and a person and a deity. All things are entirely defined by extrinsic characteristics.

Defining something with intrinsic identity is just a convention that is used as a local reference. Nothing has intrinsic identity in the universe. Thus the notion of a being (i.e. a thing with intrinsic identity) is false. Thus the notion of a god as an entity separate from you/me/the universe is false (as I said above).

This is called dependent origination. All things dependently arise from all other things. All is one. Just as weather systems come together to form a tornado, all "things" are produced by the confluence of other things ad infinitum until you see the universe as a single process.

This is the reason that I do not believe in God as an entity and believe in evolution.

Evolution happened. why cant you believe in both?

AB517 · 12-30-2007, 08:15 PM

[quote=harleylove;22511]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleylove

I'm just curious, if you believe God created the universe but not a religious God, what are your beliefs?

Wow, this is a lengthy answer. I will keep it short.

I mean that no one religion owns God.
What ever that idea would mean to you.

Heck, I was really hoping for the lengthy response, I enjoy reading non traditional beliefs.

If I leave your response to my own interpretation, it would be that you are a theist or deist who believes in God but not a set religion.

Then again,I refer to God at times but I am referring to the Universe.

Sorry not quite sure what to make of your response but thanks for your reply anyway.

Ok, let me think.
I'll say more.

AB517 · 12-30-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greywolf90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Og

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by Og

The notion of god as a separate actor/being on an ultimate scale is demonstrably false. That is not the way the UNIverse works.

We disagree here.

Unless you are talking about a religious God, then I agree.

It is not demonstrably false. This is just flat out wrong.
Could you please explain what you mean?
If you know how the universe works ... your the first.

The notion of an entity with intrinsic identity is illusion. A flower is made up 100% of non flower parts. Same with a tornado and a person and a deity. All things are entirely defined by extrinsic characteristics.

Defining something with intrinsic identity is just a convention that is used as a local reference. Nothing has intrinsic identity in the universe. Thus the notion of a being (i.e. a thing with intrinsic identity) is false. Thus the notion of a god as an entity separate from you/me/the universe is false (as I said above).

This is called dependent origination. All things dependently arise from all other things. All is one. Just as weather systems come together to form a tornado, all "things" are produced by the confluence of other things ad infinitum until you see the universe as a single process.

when you talk about god, i am going to assume that by "god," you are meaning the source that everything came from. so my question is how can something be called the "origin" if it was made of something else?

i'd also like to point out that i don't see god as something physical, such as a flower or a tornado. i see god as more of a human concept, such as good and evil. i don't think evil is exactly "made" of other things.

Why does God have to be the only one?
I believe in one God for one universe.
But who's to say that our God didnt have parents. Why would that be bad? For me I don't even go there because we probably can not know. I do believe that we can, and will prove, the God of our universe in the future.

I use the word God just as a word. A high power mite be better. Some greater awareness. I just can not believe that we are the top level of awareness in the universe. I look at the percentage of mass of our solar system as compared to the total mass of the universe. We may be 2 or 3 powers of ten greater in terms of awareness but that leaves us far short of what we may be part of.

harleylove · 12-31-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by harleylove

Quote:

Originally Posted by Og

Quote:

Originally Posted by AB517

Quote:

Originally Posted by Og

The notion of god as a separate actor/being on an ultimate scale is demonstrably false. That is not the way the UNIverse works.

We disagree here.

Unless you are talking about a religious God, then I agree.

It is not demonstrably false. This is just flat out wrong.
Could you please explain what you mean?
If you know how the universe works ... your the first.

The notion of an entity with intrinsic identity is illusion. A flower is made up 100% of non flower parts. Same with a tornado and a person and a deity. All things are entirely defined by extrinsic characteristics.

Defining something with intrinsic identity is just a convention that is used as a local reference. Nothing has intrinsic identity in the universe. Thus the notion of a being (i.e. a thing with intrinsic identity) is false. Thus the notion of a god as an entity separate from you/me/the universe is false (as I said above).

This is called dependent origination. All things dependently arise from all other things. All is one. Just as weather systems come together to form a tornado, all "things" are produced by the confluence of other things ad infinitum until you see the universe as a single process.

This is the reason that I do not believe in God as an entity and believe in evolution.

Evolution happened. why cant you believe in both?

God to me is in the same category as the supernatural, ghosts and space aliens. Sure, I feel they are possible but don't particuliarly believe in their existence. Actually I think I would put UFO's and space aliens ahead of any belief in a God because they seem more probable to me. I am sort of stuck on the question of where a God would come from. Just because it's God so doesn't need any further explanation is not enough for me.

Evolution is a simple explanation for a complex universe. I have a butterfly garden. In my garden I have the host plant for the Monarch butterfly. The host plant is milkweed, it's poisonous. The monarch caterpillar has to eat this plant or it will die. It's body metabolizes the poison and the caterpillar becomes poisonous itself. On this plant there are aphids and milkweed bugs and milkweed assasin bugs. They are all interrelated, the assassin bugs can eat the caterpillars but if a bird eats a caterpillar it will get extremely ill. The lady bugs eat the aphids and the caterpillars are host to wasps and flies that use the caterpillar body as a host for their eggs. Such complexity for one plant, and we are surrounded by this. Just a small example and not a thorough one but I'm sure you get the idea. With all the life on the planet, it's just hard for me to believe this could have been created for just 1 plant.

On the other hand, I will never claim there is no God, or higher power because I just don't know. I can only base my beliefs on what is logical to me. Part of the reason I joined this forum was so that I could read other view points and ask questions about the things that don't rub me too well. You never know when something might make sense if I hear it through another point of view.

I'm still interested in reading about your beliefs.