what atheists expect an intelligent person to believe - Page 10

Astral · 01-06-2008, 03:35 PM

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Originally Posted by romansh

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Originally Posted by Astral

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Originally Posted by romansh

By your logic evolution would create/has created religion god and the like.
Thank you, you did enlighten me

If evolution is true, then I believe that is the case. If evolution is true then no God(s) exist but the ones we imagine.

actually both our arguments are non sequitur

With some variance, yes. Anyone can take a theory and modify it to explain for some discrepancies. But I think for the most part our conclusions do not fall in that category.

AB517 · 01-08-2008, 06:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Og

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Originally Posted by Astral

When I coin the term intellectual dishonesty, I mean it to imply that they contradict themselves with another tenet they say they believe in. I will provide an example.

Evolution and Socialism. This one is common. Evolution is directly the survival of the fittest. Socialism is generally about taking care of everyone. If we take care of everyone we allow the genetic pool to more easily corrupt itself by keeping bad genetic code alive long enough to reproduce. What happens if we corrupt it so much that we weed out all the good genes and are left with nothing but bad genes? How is humanity to survive having shot itself in the head?

If you believe in evolution then you must allow people to perish because they are not fit. And if you believe in Socialism then all effort should be made to save those that are not fit.

This is not the way evolution works. It does not extract genes that kill the organism. In fact MANY genes are compromises that allow the creature to replicate but kill it after it has done so. Cancers are many kinds of genes that are susceptible to mutation but provide important localization and proliferation queues during the life of the organism. They won't get selected out because they only effect the organism AFTER it has passed the gene on. It doesn't matter what the organism believes in as far as political ideology is concerned.

Evolution does not have a will. If working together and supporting a group of people enhances the fitness (ability to reproduce) of members of that gene pool then that is what will be selected for. They may genetically run themselves into a corner over time, but evolution allows for that.

Evolution has nothing to do with killing those who are not fit. It has to do with factors that enhance reproduction and survivability. NO concept can be "against evolution" as you put it. Evolution just happens. Some creatures survive to reproduce for some reasons. It has nothing to do with the will of the creatures towards survival.

Socialism could be a very useful way to control a population such that it could survive in harsh environments. There is nothing counter to evolution about group sharing/cooperation behaviors. In fact it is senseless for one to say that there is a behavior in nature that is "counter to evolution." Evolution has no will or direction or goal. It simply describes the process of change that occurs in creatures over time.

almost correct

Kind of like a radio sayin to itself. I am a collection of parts and the music comes from within me.

rstrats · 01-30-2008, 07:40 AM

Astreja,

re: “Until you do that, I am under no obligation to take Revelations seriously.”

Any particular reason for adding an “s” at the end of Revelation?

Astreja · 01-30-2008, 11:37 PM

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Originally Posted by rstrats

Any particular reason for adding an “s” at the end of Revelation?

Just a typo. I've heard people refer to it as "the book of Revelations" and that's how it came out when I typed it.

Tomasz · 02-27-2008, 10:33 AM

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The house or apartment building you live in was designed and built by an intelligent life form
The television you watch was designed and built by an intelligent life form

However, the universe and planet you live in and the body you have which are millions of times more complex than anything I’ve listed above were created by random assembly and a process known as evolution

A laughable assumption really and is the best trick the devil has ever pulled

Yeah, yeah, by all means believe in what you like. You & I may believe that we're rejects of higher civilization here on earth.

One problem with this kind of thinking is invoking bigger complexity than the one you're trying to explain. Then you should ask a question who created God who must be obviously more complex than what he allegedly had created.
Infinite regression is what you get

GI · 02-29-2008, 07:02 AM

The Creation myth is just philisophical allegory as are 'The Fall', 'The Exodus', 'The Gospels' etc. Anyone studying ancient mythology, egyptology, ancient pagan/mystical religions will be clearly aware of this.

To my mind; Darwin evolution to a minor degree has taken place on species (never created a different animal - fruit flies are still fruit flies!), classes of animals are distinct and originated from one ancestor i.e wolf for now domestic dog. 'Blue prints' of species I believe were delivered to this planet (space dust) as natural law within the cosmos. We have always been human on this planet and have just basically become more 'civilised' from hunters/gatherers. Alot of our insticts are evolved from the thousands of years we spent as hunters/gatherers (evolutionary pyschology). Neo-Darwinism does not account for DNA and the laws and general fitness of the universe. Both the Bible and biology do NOT provide the answers to origins.

**WilliamBlue** · 03-01-2008, 02:09 PM

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Originally Posted by GI

To my mind; Darwin evolution to a minor degree has taken place on species (never created a different animal - fruit flies are still fruit flies!), classes of animals are distinct and originated from one ancestor i.e wolf for now domestic dog. 'Blue prints' of species I believe were delivered to this planet (space dust) as natural law within the cosmos.

You didn't watch the short movie I posted earlier did you, or you did and choose to ignore the evidence there in? So you are a believer of intelligent design, I am guessing?

AB517 · 03-01-2008, 04:48 PM

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Originally Posted by Tomasz

Quote:

The house or apartment building you live in was designed and built by an intelligent life form
The television you watch was designed and built by an intelligent life form

However, the universe and planet you live in and the body you have which are millions of times more complex than anything I’ve listed above were created by random assembly and a process known as evolution

A laughable assumption really and is the best trick the devil has ever pulled

Yeah, yeah, by all means believe in what you like. You & I may believe that we're rejects of higher civilization here on earth.

One problem with this kind of thinking is invoking bigger complexity than the one you're trying to explain. Then you should ask a question who created God who must be obviously more complex than what he allegedly had created.
Infinite regression is what you get

Irrelevant to us in this universe.

The only question is where we came from?

nakamichi680zx · 03-02-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astral

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

By your logic evolution would create/has created religion god and the like.
Thank you, you did enlighten me

If evolution is true, then I believe that is the case. If evolution is true then no God(s) exist but the ones we imagine.

For the support of God being imagined, ask the question "Why won't God heal amputees?"

This is a fascinating seemingly simple question that this site explores.

I'll cut to the article's key point (but you need to read the entire article for context:

Quote:

Key Point
If God is imaginary, then he does not answer any prayers. Therefore, the prayers of amputees would go unanswered too. The thing that is so appealing about this explanation is that there is no hand waving. There are no contradictions. It is completely fair. There is no paradox. This explanation makes sense in light of the evidence we see in our world.

Derbonic · 03-25-2008, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by MAYBE

The computer you’re typing at was designed and built by an intelligent life form

The car you drive was designed and built by an intelligent life form

The house or apartment building you live in was designed and built by an intelligent life form

The television you watch was designed and built by an intelligent life form

However, the universe and planet you live in and the body you have which are millions of times more complex than anything I’ve listed above were created by random assembly and a process known as evolution

A laughable assumption really and is the best trick the devil has ever pulled

Amen friend

And you call yourself an inteligent life form.

Think about what you are saying.
All of those things you have listed (that are not " millions of times more complex than anything I’ve listed above ") are things that have EVOLVED. ya know, like over time and stuff.