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07-05-2007, 02:11 PM
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#21 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 627
| Muhammed loved Jesus christ, as all muslims love jesus christ. We believe He is one of the most important messengers of God, we believe he is the True Messiah, we believe he is the Christ. Who are you to tell us that we dont?
Muhammed said about Jesus:
"All children of Adam are touched by the Devil when they are born, except for Mary and Her son." (Sahiih Muslim)
Unlike the jews we hold Jesus in the highest esteem and reverance.
First of all even in the Bible (where it has not been changed) it says that God is one and He has no partners: Hear, 0 Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." (Deuteronomy 6:4)
....that ye may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He: before Me there was no God, neither shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside Me there is rio sav- ior. (Isaiah 43:10-11)
The first of an the commandments is: Hear, 0 Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. (Mark 12:29)
. . . We know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that. there is none other God but one. (I Corinthians 8:4)
Muhammed told the people that Jesus christ was the Messiah and He will come again to destroy the anti-christ.
The Quar says about Jesus's birth and mission: (And remember) when the angels said: 0 Mary! Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his man- hood, and he is of the righteous. She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal has touched me? He said: So (it will be). Allah creates what He will. If He decrees a thing, He says unto it only, Be! and it is. And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel. And will make him a messenger unto the children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the like- ness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what you can eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein surely is a portent for you, if you are believers. And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (3:45-51)
This is what Jesus said to the people as a baby (another miracle of his) He spoke: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and has appointed me a Prophet. And has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive. And (has made me) dutiful toward my mother, and has not made me arrogant, unblessed. Peace on me the day I was born, the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. (19:30-34)
God tells us abut Jesus in the Quran: And we caused Jesus son of Mary to follow in their foot steps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him, and We bestowed on him the Gospels wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil). Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah has revealed therein. Who judges not by that which Allah has revealed; such are evildoers. (5:46-47) And when Jesus son of Mary said: 0 Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who comes after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he has come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic. (61:6)
As for your claims about God forbidding polygamy:
There is nowhere in the Bible where polygamy is forbidden (dont you think God would have told us if He forbade it?) and there are manny example of previous messengers pracyicing polygamy.
__________________ "But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran |
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07-05-2007, 02:43 PM
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#22 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: indpls, indiana,usa
Posts: 2,188
| Quote:
Originally Posted by VenomFangX A prophecy made hundreds of years before Christ foretold than once the Messiah came, there would be no other prophets.
'Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to SEAL UP VISION AND PROPHECY and to anoint the most holy place.' (Daniel 9:24).
So, by God's own word, Mohammed is not a prophet. Also, 600 years before Mohammed was born, God warned us about Islam. Mohammed was foretold, in this passage;
'Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.' (2:22-23) 'you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come…' (2:18) In the fourth chapter false prophets are noted, and one of the characteristics of a false prophet is to deny that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. In a positive way, 'Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God.'(4:15) John continues to warn: 'He who believes in the Son has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God, has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to his Son. And this is the testimony that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life, he who has not the Son has not life.' (5:10-12)
Mohammed was a conniving illiterate who mocked the divinity of Jesus. A sexually active polygamist who began his life as a pagan and ended it in a new form of pagan belief of his own making (yet could perform no miracles, make no prophecies, and did not fullfill any criteria God has given for us to recognize a prophet of God). Warlike, Mohammed's focus was on this life and not upon eternal life except to the degree that the concept as presented offered the fulfillment of humanistic goals. When challenged and not with a strong army he fled (Jesus, with the power of God, one time walked right through a crowd desiring to put him to death and toward the end went to Jerusalem knowing full well that He would suffer and be put to a horrible death).
The teachings Mohammed personally developed over a period of time he taught to pagans who had little or no association with authentic monotheistic teachings. Among them his perversions were able to be seen as an improvement over their worship of multiple gods who could neither see nor speak. Nothing he ever said was reinforced by miracles as were the teachings of Moses, Elijah, and the Messiah (savior from the consequence of eternal separation from the presence of God) known as Jesus. When he obtained sufficient power he enforced his teachings through conquest and the penalty of death. In effect he became his own god while enforcing the worship of a false god he named Allah – a singular person god that is an impossibility as has already been illustrated. Allah, an imaginated god, is not an existent god except in the minds of the followers of the Koran. | whoa! are these your thoughts or someone else's? Are you as fanatical about Christianity being the one "true" religion?
__________________ "Ubi dubium ibi libertas."
"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....." |
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07-07-2007, 01:38 AM
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#23 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 69
| Prophecy can be interpreted almost any way you'd like it to be interpreted. Much like a horoscope, they're vague and easily applicable. The reason why Muhammad is not interpreted as the subject of the prophecy is because Christians don't want him to be. |
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07-07-2007, 03:28 AM
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#24 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 14
| The quran is at a job interview. The boss asks, "Do you have references?" quran replies, "Torah and Bible, call them." So the boss calls Torah, and Torah replies, "I have never heard of him." Confused, the boss calls Bible and Bible says, "I know him; he is a liar and a thief and is actually from Satan, the devil, don't believe him." Pressed by the boss, quran defends "they are liars." And the boss reasons: "if they are liars, why do you use them for references unless you are insane?" http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm http://bibleandquran.com/quran-word-of-god8.htm http://geocities.com/christian_crusa...lam-beast.html |
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07-07-2007, 02:20 PM
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#25 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: somewhere
Posts: 428
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Kham Prophecy can be interpreted almost any way you'd like it to be interpreted. Much like a horoscope, they're vague and easily applicable. The reason why Muhammad is not interpreted as the subject of the prophecy is because Christians don't want him to be. | the verses that sisterX gave were clearly talking about Jesus and most of them the Holy Spirit and most of them even said HOLY SPIRIT.
__________________ Fool for Christ - 1 corinthians 4:10
1 Timothy 4:12
"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith, and in purity.
John 15:18-21 http://www.flashdemo.net/gallery/wake/index.htm |
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07-07-2007, 02:34 PM
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#26 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 627
| Actually none of them said HOLY SPIRIT.
__________________ "But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran |
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07-07-2007, 03:02 PM
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#27 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: somewhere
Posts: 428
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapstiquelova Deuteronomy 18:18
Jesus fufils this perfectly.
This verse is refering to an Israelite not an arab.
He was from among his Jewish brethern, and he spoke what the father commanded of him.
Deut 18:15-18
Galatians 4:44But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law,(among his brethern Jews)
Luke 13:13Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God. (Jesus a Prophet)
John 8:28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
(He spoke what the Father commanded him)
Genesis 6:12
12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.
(Noah and the Ark this was I believe when God was explaining to Noah what has happend and how he (God) is going to fix it)
John 16:7
But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away the Counselor will not come to you. (This is Jesus saying he is going back home after his death and resurection and after 40days on the earth and he is sending the holy spirit..)
Heres what The scripture says before and then after this verse above:
5"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt[a] in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment.
(Jesus is talking to his disciples, about him leaving to go home to his Father God. and to make it clear Jesus isnt the Son thro Gods sexual act, God created sex he has no wife/partner or such to have Jesus the son. The disciples were upset Jesus was leaving them and Jesus was explaining the holy spirit will be there with them.)
John 16:13-15
12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
Again above in John 16:13 Jesus is speaking of the Holy spirit.
John 14:16
And I(Jesus) will ask the father to give you ANOTHER conselor(The holy spirit)
to be with you FOREVER. (Muhammed is no longer here)
( verse 17) > The SPIRIT of truth.
Jesus Continues on in what he is saying after 14:16 that it is the Spirit of Truth (which is the Holy spirit) and he also says to be with you FOREVER.
John 14:26
But the counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My Name, will teach you all things and will remind you (The disciples)
of everything I have said to you.
^Again Jesus is speaking of the Holy spirit reminding them of all Jesus has said to them.
Matthew 21:10-11
When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city stirred and asked, "who is this?"11The Crowds answered , "This is Jesus the Prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.
All this is saying is Jesus is from Nazareth and he is a prophet, this doesnt take anything from him in being God's son.
Luke 24:19
What thingd? he asked.
"About Jesus of Nazareth," they replied.
"He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people.
This also connects with the prophecy being about Jesus.
He was a Prophet. Powerful in word and deed before God and all the poeple.
And this was After Jesus death (LUKE 23:44......so on)
and Jesus Resurrection (which is also in look 24 before that verse listed above.)
Jesus is called :THE GOOD SHEPHERD: (In this versed Jesus called HIMSELF the Good Shepherd)
John 10:11
"I am the Good Shepherd.The Good Shepherd lays down his life for the sheep"
Jesus here is talking about his crucifixin for us.
He is called Savior:
John 4:42
They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; no we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man(Jesus) really is the Savior of the world.
He is called Immanuel :
Matt 1:23
The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel-which means "God is With us"
The way truth Life:
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER except THROUGH ME. | You'll have to excuse me you r rught they dont say "holy spirit" but they say conselor and such but it is REFERING to the HOLYSPIRIT.
thank you for pointing that out.
__________________ Fool for Christ - 1 corinthians 4:10
1 Timothy 4:12
"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith, and in purity.
John 15:18-21 http://www.flashdemo.net/gallery/wake/index.htm |
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07-08-2007, 06:31 AM
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#28 (permalink)
| | Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 69
| Quote: |
the verses that sisterX gave were clearly talking about Jesus and most of them the Holy Spirit and most of them even said HOLY SPIRIT.
| Quote:
You'll have to excuse me you r rught they dont say "holy spirit" but they say conselor and such but it is REFERING to the HOLYSPIRIT.
thank you for pointing that out.
| I've looked at quite a few prophecies in the Bible and they are all just vague enough to work, and most of them can be bent to mean plenty of different things. Look back in this thread and you'll see disagreement over what some of the prophecies are predicting. I'm not going to go through dozens of prophecies, but I'll at least take the first few that you list to demonstrate what I'm getting at.
"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him."
-Deuteronomy 18:18 Quote: |
Jesus fulfills this perfectly
| The verse doesn't even indicate what the prophet will say; just that he will speak god's word. What prophet can't be described as such, so long as you believe that hes speaking the word of god?
Galatians 4 does not have 44 verses.
Luke 13:13 does not appear to be a prophecy, just a description of events.
"So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."
-John 8:28
I suppose this is a prophecy, but I am not even sure what this means. Wouldn't anyone's son be the son of man?
Well, this could go on and on, but you get my drift. That is just the nature of prophecy, speaking in vagaries. |
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07-08-2007, 01:00 PM
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#29 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: somewhere
Posts: 428
| i didnt say galations 4:44 did i?
__________________ Fool for Christ - 1 corinthians 4:10
1 Timothy 4:12
"Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith, and in purity.
John 15:18-21 http://www.flashdemo.net/gallery/wake/index.htm |
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07-08-2007, 08:15 PM
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#30 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 69
| Galatians 4:44 is the second one down on the list, but I remember that being SisterX's list. |
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