Originally Posted by nanners86

I must say, I have seen lots of Christians who really try not to sin and they are christians everyday of the week, not just on Sundays. And even though they can be forgiven they are suppose to work on their weakness. I just think it is sad that you have to be threatened by the idea of hell to be a good person. I think it is a waste.

Originally Posted by George

So a person can come into your house, rape your wife and sexually abuse your kids then kill them all execution style and live his life doing similar acts afterwards. But when he turns 60 and feels bad about and worships God and "truly believes" then he deserves to go to the same heaven all the good people do. Is that what you're saying?

Originally Posted by }SoC{Sumguy

i dont realy feel threatened by it. my main motivation is the reward, not the punishment.

Originally Posted by Grant

Lets do a little analogy. Say I've been sneaking out of my house every night and getting stoned. I've been doing it my whole life. One night, I decide to come clean with my parents and ask for forgivness from them. If I'm sincerely repentant, would I keep sneaking off? No. I would make an effort to live right.

Originally Posted by Grant

Its not that the 60-year-old man would DESERVE to go to Heaven. Thats one of the distinctive things about Christianity. You don't earn it. But at the same time you shouldn't continue doing all the bad stuff. The analogy you just read should clear that up.

Originally Posted by George

]But you made an apples vs oranges analogy compared to mine. They are so different it's almost tough to see how we're even talking about the same subject.

I'll make it simple. In your analogy, the person is only hurting themself. In mine they killed an entire family.

In your analogy the person did it for a short period of time. In mine we're talking about someone who lived their life doing everything christians are told not to, not just one thing. And he gets the same heaven you all get. Forget how unfair that is, because truth be told it flat out doesn't even make sense.

It doesn't matter the degree of evil in the analogy. My point is that if you are sorry, you'll make an effort to stop.
Read what you just said back to yourself. The old man didn't earn it, he doesn't deserve it, but he gets it anyway. Just as long as he stops before he dies.

Its not a works-based faith. I don't understand why thats so hard to comprehend.

Now why do you think christianity needs such a gaping loophole in it for it to work? I have to admit I agree with SithLord, you can't control people that believe they aren't even worthy to be controlled. Religious leaders needed a way to convert people who they once justified their willingness to kill because they were so against God's teachings.

You're saying that the fact you don't want to submit to authority is a loophole in Christianity? I'm not following you on this. Religious leaders were very off-base. Jesus addressed that in Corinthians (I don't remember where). According to Him, the religious leaders were spiritually dead. They only worried about the image they gave off trying to acheive their own gain. If anybody knows where I'm talking about, I'd appreciate it.

It sounds a bit too much like one of those no credit, no money, no problem car salesman pitches..... No good life? No compassion? No respect for human life? No problem! Just mosey on down to God's heaven shack and you'll be saved! All we ask in return is your absolute belief and that you obey us without question ... what's that? You broke every rule we tell everyone that already believes us not to break? So what! At God's heaven shack your blind obedience is all the currency you need
The Bible doesn't ask for blind faith. The Bible, in fact says to question God. You disregarded my comments on turning from a sinful life in this comment.

Originally Posted by George

And if breakable rules is not a loophole what is? Note I didn't say flexible. I said breakable.

Originally Posted by nanners86

To me that sounds selfish, you have to be rewarded to help others, to be a decent human being? See what I mean?