jaej

How so, exactly? Christianity is control, plain and simple. While many of it's followers believe whole-heartedly and sincerely, it's controlling by it's very nature. God is the only entity who doesn't need to exist in order to rule.

Do you know first hand the kind of nonsense they preach, and how seriously they take the most ridiculous things, like tithing? I think not, so if you would kindly stop your misplaced condescension, we can move on with discussion that actually has merit.

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Jayhawker Soule

What is "plain and simple" is your adolescent evaluation.

The condescension is well placed and most deserving. Sorry, jaej, but I really detest petty little bigots.

I'm in my 60's, have dealt with Jews and Christians most of my life, and have yet to meet one that was more interested in tithing to the synagogue or church than in tzedakah/charity. That said, tithing is the single mechanism by with religious institutions are sustained, and that congregants would invest it with importance is entirely rational and eminently responsible. The only thing sick or sinister in all this is your attitude.

jaej

Be that as it may, I grew up in and have spent the last 18 years attending a christian church, I can tell you first-hand how ridiculously obsessed people are with tithing. They make it into a huge deal. I can't count the number of times I've been preached at about 'good stewardship' with what 'god has blessed you with.' They obsess about it, literally. They spread rumors about people who don't tithe as much as the church leaders think they should, and very frequently extort tithe money out of people.

Could you tell me how I am a 'petty little bigot', please? I'm very curious.

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jaej

Um, I think plain and simple pretty much speak for themselves. What, in your 60-year-old definition, is plain and simple?

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Jayhawker Soule

See below ...

I doubt that you are at all curious, but note the difference between the initial quote and the paraphrased quote below ...

Quote:

Be that as it may, I grew up in and have spent the last 18 years attending a christian church, I can tell you first-hand how ridiculously obsessed some people are with tithing. Some make it into a huge deal. I can't count the number of times I've been preached at about 'good stewardship' with what 'god has blessed you with.' Some obsess about it, literally. Some spread rumors about people who don't tithe as much as the church leaders think they should, and very frequently extort tithe money out of people.

It's petty, whining bigotry.

Look, jaej, I'm an atheist and a dues-paying member of a synagogue. I have no particular reason to rush to the defense of Christians. But I've dealt with many from many denominations and they are, almost without exception, a damn sight better than you paint them and, in fact, demonstrate a good deal more character than you.

jaej

I don't doubt it. I've never been known for my sensitivity or kindness.

And I do not think I'm overgeneralizing or I wouldn't have written what I did. I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Or not agree, it's up to you. My opinions haven't changed.

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lauraclay

Constantine was in the beginning. And he's just one example. On a small level, Christianity was believed and people felt it. On a large level, it was propaganda.
I'm not saying Jesus was spouting propaganda, but many people around him and after him were.

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and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

jaej

I don't disagree. All I said was it wasn't all propaganda, that at it's core were a few people who truly believed what they said. It was abused by many of their followers.

And you brought up Constantine.

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lauraclay

Originally you said at the beginning there was no propaganda. I know I brought up Constantine, never implied I didn't.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

jaej

At the beginning there was no propoganda. And you brought up constantine as if it was the one word rebuttal to what I was saying, and then you downplayed his importance later.

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