Paul

A person can call him or herself a Christian all day and it not be true. A person's interpretation can be flawed. If (and this is a very big if) you believe and follow what the Bible says, then a Christian is someone who has accepted Christ as Lord and Savior and repented of their sins, but (as many have stated already) my beliefs (as well as others beliefs) could possibly be wrong. Whether something is provable or not does not make it true. There has to be certain circumstances or requirements that dictate what a Christian is, no matter where they come from, just as there are requirements as to weather a person is male or female. Facts are facts. Interpretations can be flawed.

Og

Then don't confuse "Paulite" (i.e. the guy who wrote most of the new testament) with "Christian"... If being christian requires a literal belief in idiotic notions then I am not that.

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You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
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Paul

I'm not confusing it. Paul (not me) explains exactly what a Christian is and what they are suppossed to be like.

The need for salvation- Romans 3:23- For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

The penalty of sin- Romans 6:23- For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life.

The plan of salvation- Romans 10:9- That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

If you follow Paul, then you have to follow his teachings on salvation (otherwise you're not really following him). Even Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11:1- Follow my example as I follow the example of Christ.
(And yes I take most of the Bible as literal interpretation)

jaej

Is that a serious post? I'm honestly having trouble telling if it is or not.

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girlinterrupted364

so im confused, do we believe paul or the bible or god or..what?

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And posting it.
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Og

Paul is the source of much of the structure of living as a christian. He is responsible for virtually every book in the new testament outside the gospels and revelations... All of the books such as "galatians" and "timothy" are really "paul's letter to timothy" or "paul's letter to the corinthians."

All of paul's commentary was directed to specific communities with specific issues. For example, when paul says that you shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, this is because a pregnant female without a husband in the year 100 CE would not survive. This has zero relevance in the modern world but people think it's divine mandate.

Paul's interpretation is in small world and specific community situation applications of christ's message but is generally interpreted literally as applying generally. As you see quoted above, much of the modern structure of christianity is derived from paul and not from christ's teachings.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Paul

Jael, where did I confuse you? I was simply trying to show that if a person claims to follow Paul the apostle, then he/she has to logically follow Christ. If he/she does not, then they are not following Paul who was himself a Christian as shown in Acts. For those wondering what a Christian really is, you have to go to where it all began.

Girlinteruppted, Chiristians, in the original sence, followed Christ. His teachings are in our Bible today. The original term of Christian came from not believers. It was meant to be used to make fun of and be a put down (which it still is used as today) to those that followed Christ. In answer to your question, yes we believe Paul. Yes we believe the Bible. Yes we believe God. They all say the same thing. In my above post, the apostle Paul outlines what a Christian is. There are many other verses that concure with what Paul says, both from Paul himself and other Biblical authors.

Og, I agree that Paul's letters were written to specific people and churches, but the priciples behind the applications that Paul gives to them still apply to us today. Sex outside of marriage could be detremental back then and it still can be that way today. Paul did write most of the New Testament and his teachings should shape Christianity today, but that is only because Christ gave him the authority. He was not one of the original apostles (some think that he was suppossed to be the one that God chose to replace Judas, but the other 11 jumped the gun), but Christ gave him that authority after his conversion.

jaej

You talked about following paul, not following christ. Your post was all about how if you follow paul then that makes you a christian. I disagree, because many of paul's teachings were vastly different than christ's.

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Og

Most christians are paulites and don't know it. All of the post-gospel work is about the foundation for the catholic church and the dogma structure and behavioral norms to define what christians are.

Christ's messages do not address these things, but they are necessary for a movement like this (supposedly). So in come peter (who didn't get the message yet founded the church) and paul who had his own idea about what it meant to be christian.

Paul spent his whole life as Saul manipulating himself into positions of power and even persecuted the christians to a great extent. I don't find it surprising that an individual flip flops over to the rising power after having a self described "transformation" on the road to damascus. It seems very convenient given the politics of the time and his past behavior versus something divinely driven.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Paul

Please give me an example where their teachings are different if you don't mind. Thanks.