Vfr

A Christian sent in a post to an atheist group I was on titled 'To All The God Haters' I think this is a misconception within the religious community that all atheists must be God haters. I am not going to claim that most atheist are God lovers, but many atheists were members of organized religions at some point in their lives and started to think for themselves and one day saw the light. One can put something down without turning to hate. Hate destroys one's peace and atheists are just as subject to peace disruption as the religious fellow when they live wrong.

See my posts:

http://**********************/jne/fo...hp?topic=327.0

http://**********************/jne/fo....php?topic=4.0

http://**********************/jne/fo...hp?topic=318.0

SithLord

Exactly, I know my posts can seem abrasive at times but the fact is I don't hate God. I could never hate something I don't believe in. That's absurd and most atheists if you pose the question to them in that light would agree.

What gets us all riled up is the believers and their arrogant snooty way of looking down on people and blatantly discriminating against people who aren't in their club. Yet at the same time they claim to "love all God's creations". Pure hipocritical talking points.

Free thinkers just want the right for everyone to not believe in God without being social outcasts.

Vfr

Snooty attitudes...yes I agree, no one likes that. Alan Watts use to say we define ourselves by our enemies. We define ourselves by what we are not. He used the example of 'Beatniks and Squares' which were the in fad opposites back in his day. So of course it is natural for religion and atheists to view themselves as polar opposites.

hokeshel

Believers do not corner the market on snootiness and hipocrisy. I do not think that all atheists hate God, or that they hate Christians. But, I haev certainly heard and seen much evidence on this very forum that there is hatred going both ways.
Let me ask you, if a CHristian sasy to you that you are no thinkign for yourself and that you have not sene the light. Do get offended or maybe think they are being ridiculous? When Vfr makes those comments, a Christian would certian feel the same way. Sithlord, I have seen some extrmely arrogant posts by you as well and many others here, agnostic and believers. I think that for either side (because for some reason we have to see ourselves as on opposite sides) to claim the other is full of hypocricy and arrogance is a mute point. Both sides are full of them. I guess what I am saying is that I agree wiht you but, there are just as many weeds in the agnostic garden as there are in the believers garden.

Vfr

Yes, you are right about both gardens having weeds. Arrogance is one thing and of a personal nature and subjective. But pure hate without reason, data or facts is just pure hate. Am not sure about my comments, so please clarify if said something offensive.

George

I must say in my opinion you seem to be confusing atheists and agnostics. Please take a moment to read my post about the definition of an agnostic. http://www.agnosticforums.com/what-a...ere-clear.html

Agnostics are neither believers nor non-believers. We also don't belong to either "side" or "camp" of the debate. We simply believe that neither side will be able to prove their given our current state of being and understanding of the universe around us.

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cerumen

There is just as much arrogance prevalent in the various communities found here and anywhere for that matter as what you are stating about Christians. It just happens that people hold those who espouse religious beliefs to higher standards and forget that human nature is human nature. Many people attend church regularly and are no more Christian than someone who does not. Something like 80% of people when asked would say they believe in God but maybe 20% actually attend church regularly (just guessing here). I can call myself anything I want and tell the world that is what I am it doesn't make it true. Classifying all Christians as arrogant is a little short sighted.

merrymomof3

Being a Christian does not mean that you think you are perfect, or look down on everyone else. It simply means that you believe that you have been forgiven by the Grace of God for all of your sins and you believe that Jesus died as a living sacrifice to atone for you. You can't lump all Christians together into arrogant and judgmental people.

I try not to be judgemental, or arrogant. I try not to be preachy. I try to love everyone, but I am human and therefore sinful and imperfect. So I ask forgiveness when I need to.

Og

I think, fundamentally, being a Christian means to follow the teachings of christ. And I don't think it includes a necessity for a literal interpretation of his teachings or even a whole acceptance of all sayings attributed to him.

I personally think only of sin as the concept of duality and free will. I don't believe that mankind is somehow naturally flawed by default. I don't see the evidence for it. I know too many wonderful people who's acts are always out f compassion even if they don't work out the way they planned it to.

I don't think that being a christian requires this self destructive view of self. I think a powerful way of being christian is to realize the christ that you are and your own unity with the divine.

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mplltt

That has merit. The belief that people can be unforgiving has only to match to the willingness for people to be a little hurt by people leaving the congregation. Churches, much like business, rely on numbers. You in your seat in the pew are a number. 1-15 usually is the amount of people that can fit in a pew. The numbers increase with more children because your butt is smaller as your age decreases, sorry to all the members who are small by nature. My comment to church is that the teaching of faith and theology is only to cover for the fact that the decons stood at the corners of the pews and counted you pointing to each person in the pews and walking back to the other decons with the offering plates. The churches are well run businesses of ear-ticklers in order to welcome other people. This also gives rise to the ability for political leaders to visit these organizations in order to get in on the numbers-gig. The ability for a pastor or an assistant pastor to tell about events and successes of these events only adds to the excitement and involvement to micromanage their number counting process. Those events are well managed and play out as money spending routines. These are sometimes expensive and sometimes cheap, relying on the "plate" to pay for the services rendered.

The reason people in the church label us haters of the church is because the numbers are smaller now and the people that attend, pass on the "plate" and don't participate in the fellowship ministries. I believe that I am not a hater, because I want to hear about God in the services, yet I am attended to partitioned loads of problems that the minister has with the way that non-christian, non-number-believing-ministry-having, non-attenders playfully go throughout life without the God-blessed truth about God blessed-ness.

I also believe that I am a non-hater, because I seek the truth. The light. I seek that which is further evidence to the passion and drive that makes us human. That knowledge to not hesitate and makes the anger subside in men that fear others gathering knowledge and truth. This can only be gained outside of church, because once you are in the church the only thing that should be on the preacher's mind is that pending evidence that God exists but even so a manner of poetic justice. I think that I am able to follow the teachings of public instigation that school and related activities are therefore still alive in the willingness to non-religiously create a philosophy or -heterodox, not believing in dogma or accepted church beliefs. This in effect would allow for people to have the willingness to rely on the things that would teach us speculation, presumption, theory, rhetoric, commonplace ideals.

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Thank you, I am impressed that you are forgiving enough to approach this line of reasoning.