heaven/hell issue - Page 4

**Skepticologist** · 05-03-2008, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Death only affects the physical body.

The awareness that you have now is the same you have after death, but with fewer limitations.

To enlarge your awareness, you have to use awareness to do it. It won't happen while you rot in the grave. That part belongs to religious mythology.

Now is the time.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

I spent more than the first half of my life believing in heaven and hell, and I'd very likely still be laboring under such fallacies if I hadn't started demanding that my operating beliefs be based on logic and reason.

There are myriads of things I'd like to believe (personally, I like the Muslim concept of 70 virgins better than the Christian concept of pearly gates and streets of gold - very nice, but also a bit cold). But as an agnostic, I can only believe in what stands up to some modicum of rationality. And neither Islam nor Christianity, nor any other "world religion" I've studied even comes close.

What you refer to as "rebooting" is nothing more than the "leap of faith" that I tried to make, but was never successful at, simply because I was called on to completely abandon any semblance of logic and reason. If God created me as a sentient human being with a functioning brain, why would he require me to put it in neutral in order to join his fold?

None of that ever made sense to me, and still doesn't.

shadowind · 05-04-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

death is not my enemy.
time and the system is...

xexon · 05-04-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Death only affects the physical body.

The awareness that you have now is the same you have after death, but with fewer limitations.

To enlarge your awareness, you have to use awareness to do it. It won't happen while you rot in the grave. That part belongs to religious mythology.

Now is the time.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

I spent more than the first half of my life believing in heaven and hell, and I'd very likely still be laboring under such fallacies if I hadn't started demanding that my operating beliefs be based on logic and reason.

There are myriads of things I'd like to believe (personally, I like the Muslim concept of 70 virgins better than the Christian concept of pearly gates and streets of gold - very nice, but also a bit cold). But as an agnostic, I can only believe in what stands up to some modicum of rationality. And neither Islam nor Christianity, nor any other "world religion" I've studied even comes close.

What you refer to as "rebooting" is nothing more than the "leap of faith" that I tried to make, but was never successful at, simply because I was called on to completely abandon any semblance of logic and reason. If God created me as a sentient human being with a functioning brain, why would he require me to put it in neutral in order to join his fold?

None of that ever made sense to me, and still doesn't.

Religions can only paint a simplistic picture of what God is. For me, there is no "he".

You'll be much happier the further you move away from the concept that God is a person. Most of what has been taught to people over the last 3000+ years is a product of crusty old men trying to protect their position in society.

Its "their" God, not yours.

Thats the reason it fails to fit so many people. You're trying to wear someone else's belief.

x

**Skepticologist** · 05-04-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Death only affects the physical body.

The awareness that you have now is the same you have after death, but with fewer limitations.

To enlarge your awareness, you have to use awareness to do it. It won't happen while you rot in the grave. That part belongs to religious mythology.

Now is the time.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

I spent more than the first half of my life believing in heaven and hell, and I'd very likely still be laboring under such fallacies if I hadn't started demanding that my operating beliefs be based on logic and reason.

There are myriads of things I'd like to believe (personally, I like the Muslim concept of 70 virgins better than the Christian concept of pearly gates and streets of gold - very nice, but also a bit cold). But as an agnostic, I can only believe in what stands up to some modicum of rationality. And neither Islam nor Christianity, nor any other "world religion" I've studied even comes close.

What you refer to as "rebooting" is nothing more than the "leap of faith" that I tried to make, but was never successful at, simply because I was called on to completely abandon any semblance of logic and reason. If God created me as a sentient human being with a functioning brain, why would he require me to put it in neutral in order to join his fold?

None of that ever made sense to me, and still doesn't.

Religions can only paint a simplistic picture of what God is. For me, there is no "he".

You'll be much happier the further you move away from the concept that God is a person. Most of what has been taught to people over the last 3000+ years is a product of crusty old men trying to protect their position in society.

Its "their" God, not yours.

Thats the reason it fails to fit so many people. You're trying to wear someone else's belief.

x

OK (you knew this was coming, right?). Describe your God.

xexon · 05-04-2008, 08:25 PM

A sea of conscious energy.

x

GX · 05-04-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

A sea of conscious energy.

x

I LOVE your definition X! I would however add one word and make it "a sea of conscious omnipresent energy".

**Skepticologist** · 05-07-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Death only affects the physical body.

The awareness that you have now is the same you have after death, but with fewer limitations.

To enlarge your awareness, you have to use awareness to do it. It won't happen while you rot in the grave. That part belongs to religious mythology.

Now is the time.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

I spent more than the first half of my life believing in heaven and hell, and I'd very likely still be laboring under such fallacies if I hadn't started demanding that my operating beliefs be based on logic and reason.

There are myriads of things I'd like to believe (personally, I like the Muslim concept of 70 virgins better than the Christian concept of pearly gates and streets of gold - very nice, but also a bit cold). But as an agnostic, I can only believe in what stands up to some modicum of rationality. And neither Islam nor Christianity, nor any other "world religion" I've studied even comes close.

What you refer to as "rebooting" is nothing more than the "leap of faith" that I tried to make, but was never successful at, simply because I was called on to completely abandon any semblance of logic and reason. If God created me as a sentient human being with a functioning brain, why would he require me to put it in neutral in order to join his fold?

None of that ever made sense to me, and still doesn't.

Religions can only paint a simplistic picture of what God is. For me, there is no "he".

You'll be much happier the further you move away from the concept that God is a person. Most of what has been taught to people over the last 3000+ years is a product of crusty old men trying to protect their position in society.

Its "their" God, not yours.

Thats the reason it fails to fit so many people. You're trying to wear someone else's belief.

x

OK (you knew this was coming, right?). Describe your God.

Because they didn't quote this posting, Xenon's and GX's replies aren't automatically connected.

For those of you even remotely interested, they were as follows:

Xenon: "A sea of conscious energy."

GX: "I LOVE your definition X! I would however add one word and make it "a sea of conscious omnipresent energy".

With regard to Xenon's reply, all I can say is that is seems much easier to me to relate to my old outmoded concept of a kindly, but seriously aging, Jehovah. I rejected that concept (and became an agnostic) because I found no substantive evidence to support it. I find even less evidence to support your concept of some nebulous "sea of conscious energy". Perhaps you can enlighten me. And perhaps GX, who apparently understands this nebulous concept, can embellish on his or her addition of the adjective "omnipresent".

xexon · 05-07-2008, 07:41 PM

There are some things in which words can never find a foothold.

Trying to describe God is one of them.

God cannot be comprehended by the mind, but it can be experienced. It can be experienced when you stop looking for it. Have no desire. No attraction. It will come chasing you.

"Evidence" will do you no good, because it is a product of the 5 senses. You are feeding an animal that can never get enough to eat.

Only when the heart begins to awaken do you stand any chance of catching the wind in your sailboat of the soul. The heart can see. And if you can see, you can navigate.

Hell is when you can't.

x

GX · 05-07-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Death only affects the physical body.

The awareness that you have now is the same you have after death, but with fewer limitations.

To enlarge your awareness, you have to use awareness to do it. It won't happen while you rot in the grave. That part belongs to religious mythology.

Now is the time.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

I spent more than the first half of my life believing in heaven and hell, and I'd very likely still be laboring under such fallacies if I hadn't started demanding that my operating beliefs be based on logic and reason.

There are myriads of things I'd like to believe (personally, I like the Muslim concept of 70 virgins better than the Christian concept of pearly gates and streets of gold - very nice, but also a bit cold). But as an agnostic, I can only believe in what stands up to some modicum of rationality. And neither Islam nor Christianity, nor any other "world religion" I've studied even comes close.

What you refer to as "rebooting" is nothing more than the "leap of faith" that I tried to make, but was never successful at, simply because I was called on to completely abandon any semblance of logic and reason. If God created me as a sentient human being with a functioning brain, why would he require me to put it in neutral in order to join his fold?

None of that ever made sense to me, and still doesn't.

Religions can only paint a simplistic picture of what God is. For me, there is no "he".

You'll be much happier the further you move away from the concept that God is a person. Most of what has been taught to people over the last 3000+ years is a product of crusty old men trying to protect their position in society.

Its "their" God, not yours.

Thats the reason it fails to fit so many people. You're trying to wear someone else's belief.

x

OK (you knew this was coming, right?). Describe your God.

Because they didn't quote this posting, Xenon's and GX's replies aren't automatically connected.

For those of you even remotely interested, they were as follows:

Xenon: "A sea of conscious energy."

GX: "I LOVE your definition X! I would however add one word and make it "a sea of conscious omnipresent energy".

With regard to Xenon's reply, all I can say is that is seems much easier to me to relate to my old outmoded concept of a kindly, but seriously aging, Jehovah. I rejected that concept (and became an agnostic) because I found no substantive evidence to support it. I find even less evidence to support your concept of some nebulous "sea of conscious energy". Perhaps you can enlighten me. And perhaps GX, who apparently understands this nebulous concept, can embellish on his or her addition of the adjective "omnipresent".

I would like to state right off the get go that I cannot "prove" any of this. With that said, I would be delighted to share my personal beliefs of God. The reason I added "omnipresent" is because I believe God is everywhere and everything physical and spiritual and not some "sea" located far away across the universe somewhere though I tend to think this is what X believes as well. We are all interconnected individuations of God. A sea of conscious energy is the best metaphor I have heard up to now. It is much more pleasant for me to think of God this way instead of some bearded, tragically unhip old fart sitting on a throne in a heaven far removed from us. This definition "humanizes" God too much with all kinds of flaws and a sense of separteness. Oh, and btw, this is how near death experiencers describe God as well.

**Skepticologist** · 05-12-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skepticologist

Quote:

Originally Posted by xexon

Death only affects the physical body.

The awareness that you have now is the same you have after death, but with fewer limitations.

To enlarge your awareness, you have to use awareness to do it. It won't happen while you rot in the grave. That part belongs to religious mythology.

Now is the time.

If you wait for death to reboot you, you'll always be looking for death, not eternal life.

x

I spent more than the first half of my life believing in heaven and hell, and I'd very likely still be laboring under such fallacies if I hadn't started demanding that my operating beliefs be based on logic and reason.

There are myriads of things I'd like to believe (personally, I like the Muslim concept of 70 virgins better than the Christian concept of pearly gates and streets of gold - very nice, but also a bit cold). But as an agnostic, I can only believe in what stands up to some modicum of rationality. And neither Islam nor Christianity, nor any other "world religion" I've studied even comes close.

What you refer to as "rebooting" is nothing more than the "leap of faith" that I tried to make, but was never successful at, simply because I was called on to completely abandon any semblance of logic and reason. If God created me as a sentient human being with a functioning brain, why would he require me to put it in neutral in order to join his fold?

None of that ever made sense to me, and still doesn't.

Religions can only paint a simplistic picture of what God is. For me, there is no "he".

You'll be much happier the further you move away from the concept that God is a person. Most of what has been taught to people over the last 3000+ years is a product of crusty old men trying to protect their position in society.

Its "their" God, not yours.

Thats the reason it fails to fit so many people. You're trying to wear someone else's belief.

x

OK (you knew this was coming, right?). Describe your God.

Because they didn't quote this posting, Xenon's and GX's replies aren't automatically connected.

For those of you even remotely interested, they were as follows:

Xenon: "A sea of conscious energy."

GX: "I LOVE your definition X! I would however add one word and make it "a sea of conscious omnipresent energy".

With regard to Xenon's reply, all I can say is that is seems much easier to me to relate to my old outmoded concept of a kindly, but seriously aging, Jehovah. I rejected that concept (and became an agnostic) because I found no substantive evidence to support it. I find even less evidence to support your concept of some nebulous "sea of conscious energy". Perhaps you can enlighten me. And perhaps GX, who apparently understands this nebulous concept, can embellish on his or her addition of the adjective "omnipresent".

I would like to state right off the get go that I cannot "prove" any of this. With that said, I would be delighted to share my personal beliefs of God. The reason I added "omnipresent" is because I believe God is everywhere and everything physical and spiritual and not some "sea" located far away across the universe somewhere though I tend to think this is what X believes as well. We are all interconnected individuations of God. A sea of conscious energy is the best metaphor I have heard up to now. It is much more pleasant for me to think of God this way instead of some bearded, tragically unhip old fart sitting on a throne in a heaven far removed from us. This definition "humanizes" God too much with all kinds of flaws and a sense of separteness. Oh, and btw, this is how near death experiencers describe God as well.

At this point, my question to you is, why do you "think of God" at all?

In my humble opinion, people think about and search for god because the concept has been introduced to them at some point in their lives. And when they go looking for answers to the questions of life, and find they're unattainable through normal and understandable means of perception (i.e. our five senses), they deduce that there must be some sixth or seventh or eighth sense they can access to provide them with the answers to all the mysteries of life. And they all miraculously seem to find it or them. They credit their discoveries to intuition or spirituality or any number of other nebulous phenomena.

Whatever they find, in my experience, requires the proverbial "leap of faith" because it invariably entails accepting a way of believing that doesn't depend on reason and logic. In that regard, I consider the purportedly intellectual and esoteric concepts people accept no more credible than those involving snake worship or polygamist cults.

Having offered my insights on this dilemma, it occurs to me that the ability, as an agnostic, to simply say "I don't know", and leave it at that pending any further revelations, is the only truly viable option. At least for me.