Free Will - Page 6

brandon13830 · 03-11-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenody

First of all, I thank you. That's exactly what I've (and I think Kschmidt) have been trying to say. Free will is proportional to how much God knows, and if God is omniscient then there is no true "freewill". This just further proves the Heienberg Principle mentioned earlier.

Also, I see no error at all.

Thanks. It seems to me that you have to completely turn away from logic if you're a Christian and also believe we have free will. I just see no way it's possible.

Herra1 · 03-17-2008, 12:38 PM

Good questions and good answers, i have to say.

I believe that we dont have true, free will. What IS free will ?

I Think that if people would have free will they say we have, then its quite possible that, we couldnt go out, for example.
The world would be in chaos.

God and free will ? I belive that Mr Epicurus said it wery well,
quote
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

spiritualquest · 03-18-2008, 08:52 PM

If God knows everything we are about to think or do or believe every minute of our lives, and he is a god of punishment for non belief or wrong belief, then he knew this before we were born.... therefore he must have allowed some to be born to burn in hell because he already knows every step we will take and everything we will do. It was not our free will to be born was it???????? Did we choose to be born?? If so, then we must have chosen with some kind of intelligence of what our lives would turn out to be. So why would we have chosen to be born and die and go to burn in an eternal hell? Either we have chosen to enter this world, or God chose for us to enter this world. (If you are of Christian belief, God chose for you to enter this world).... So why would he have chosen to create people he intends to punish???????

brandon13830 · 03-18-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritualquest

If God knows everything we are about to think or do or believe every minute of our lives, and he is a god of punishment for non belief or wrong belief, then he knew this before we were born.... therefore he must have allowed some to be born to burn in hell because he already knows every step we will take and everything we will do. It was not our free will to be born was it???????? Did we choose to be born?? If so, then we must have chosen with some kind of intelligence of what our lives would turn out to be. So why would we have chosen to be born and die and go to burn in an eternal hell? Either we have chosen to enter this world, or God chose for us to enter this world. (If you are of Christian belief, God chose for you to enter this world).... So why would he have chosen to create people he intends to punish???????

Very true. I honestly can't see how a solid counter argument can be made.