Og

What we must "be on guard against" is the solidification of the metaphorical nature of the message into a concrete fact. When this happens your mind becomes a rock and you sink. The result is exactly what followed in the next paragraph of your message. That is, "salvation is entirely outside of you."

I'm sorry that you see it that way. It's a dark nightmare you propose. But.. you know.. it's the nightmare you know. Being Christ is the scary part. Accepting the crucifiction of life in order to live is the hard part. But I smile when I realize that all beings are christ beings and experiencing the nightmare, or not... you and I, no distinction. Our own fundamental essence is the ground of all beings.

Welcome to the forums and thanks for contributing.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Og

Dude... I love ghostbusters.. that movie is hilarious!

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

duck

Schwing!!!!!

__________________
Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

Astreja

I doubt this very much.

For one thing, I'm of the opinion that when we die our minds die with us. Neither the believers nor the non-believers will "see" much of anything after we're dead.

But, assuming for one wild moment that our consciousness does persist, what would you do if you found yourself in an afterlife completely different from the one you're expecting? (Let's say... A generic kind-of-okay place with no religious affiliation whatsoever.)

As for the rest of your post, I see your Revelations and raise you a "Dogs and cats, living together... Mass hysteria!"

Og

There's an enlightening verse from the Gospel According to Thomas. Jesus is asked when the kingdom of heaven will come. Jesus responds by saying that the kingdom of heaven will NOT come by expectation... People will NOT say "see here, see there"... "The kingdom of heaven is laid out upon the earth and men do not see it!"

This is the essence of the end of the world (see mark 13 and revelations as metaphors). The end of the world is a metaphorical realization of a state of mind. Just as the crucifiction is a metaphor of a triumph over life.

I think it's beautifully illustrated in "Stranger than Fiction" w/ Will Ferrell (if you haven't seen it, you should). Will's life becomes a beautiful thing and then he knowingly faces his death. As a result, he is resurrected and finds life. THIS is the essence of the metaphor of the end of the world and of the death of christ.

It is not this literalist fire and brimstone. That is for the unawakened mind's nightmare.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Tomasz

Triumph of what ?

__________________
It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts - Sherlock Holmes

Og

No longer being driven by dichotomies such as fear and desire or life and death. It's the same transcendent notion that informs all world religions.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Tomasz

There's a moment where Jesus asks God if it's possible for him to pass his destiny by (short before crucifiction), he's all trembling in fear(The passion movie) but in the end he says something like that "Let it be your will not mine"
Is it a part of the battle in which Jesus "wins over life" (or I'm still missing something in the way you perceive New Testament)

__________________
It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts - Sherlock Holmes

Og

Yes.

This is a wonderful illustration of the buddhist notions that were directly copied into the text in terms of hebrew symbols. Imagine that life is a free fall. We move through time unable to escape that we all die. Imagine that there are some that flail about in the air and scream and fight it all the way down.

The triumph is in turning the fall into a swan dive and owning it. It is in realizing the path before you and how it matches the path behind you and seeing them as one and the same thing.

Buddha's teachings are called the lions roar just as jesus is said to return as the lion. The buddha/christ path is one that escapes the forces of fear and desire that prevent us from turning life into a swan dive (they give our psyche's anchor points on which to flail). The lion image is used in refering to the "solar" path because the lion has the "solar" mane of hair (looks like the sun). The counter to this is the bull who's horns resemble the horns of the sun. The moon is the counterpart of this symbol (represented in the bull by the horns that resemble the crescent moon). The moon is in a cycle of rebirth (this is the hindu image).. The sun is the source to which the enlightened mind realizes its connection (this is the act of the crucifiction or the parinirvana of the buddha).

Furthermore, I assume that one must believe that one of the disciples did actually stay awake to hear Jesus' prayer... Or that jesus told one of them (this is not how it was presented). Thinking of this as an actual event doesn't help it much. Read it as poetry and its illuminating.. read it as a news paper report and it seems silly.

Yielding is the act of jesus here. Ceasing the flailing and diving into the life that he chose.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

marmalade

That is a nice image... Life as free fall. I definitely can see that from a Buddhist perspective, but I wouldn't have thought to describe Christianity that way. Its a unique interpretation of the Christ(historical or not).

Thanks for that. My mind has been obsessed with all things astro-theological lately. I enjoy some of Christianity's connections to Eastern ideas and images. It gives it a whole different context in which to think about monotheistic savior mytho-theology.