wais shirzai

Agree Brother base on what you said : Dear this is the Satan's work bringing doubts in the Hearts and Minds no problem you keep researh on it I congratulate you for your research base on Ayyam thank you thanx alot.

Allah(s.w.t) guide you through the True Path (ameen)

THANKS

No where in the Quran a 24 hours day is mentioned in regards to creation of this universe. Quran says “ayyam” and does not articulate day and night or morning and evening just like Bible.
ayyam Means in Arabic Long Period !!!

WilliamBlue

For some reason preachers of faith think that agnostics are easy targets and I know that this is an open forum, but I sure get tired of the preaching. To me it adds nothing as they are not willing to concede that the books were written at a different time and/or a different culture, a lot of them do not have a clue as to the time/culture that influenced their book.The fact that they do not have accurate language in their books to explain things allows these preachers to interpret the words as they see fit. I've seen both Christians and now Islamics do it.

For you preachers out there, agnostics are not fence sitters who are easy to knock off. It will take more than a book and some words to change our minds no matter how holy and prophetic you think they are. I am pretty sure that none of us like being preached at, thus you are not helping the advancement of your religion and in fact are turning people off by your preaching.

Not trying to start an argument, just telling you how I feel.

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How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?

wais shirzai

We Muslims,Christians and hindus etc don't want to fight with each other rather we preach the truth and trying to convience each other. As far you are trying to Dis advance our Preaching alhamodlillah it is already Advanced no one shall accept your saying by your own Methods.
And i have already mentioned that he who accepts the Saying of some one we don't mind when some one rejects as well we don't mind because we have to convey the truth whatever you say that is your own matter not ours.

As far for me is ISLAM There is no force on you to accept .

When the Agnostic Forum is Free to all so let us talk why you are coming between us.

Astreja

I have a bit of a problem with the use of the word "scientific" in the title. "Literary" would be a more suitable word here.

What we have here is two books of uncertain origin, probably written or compiled by multiple authors and editors. The newer of the two appears to borrow from the older book. In the borrowing, the anthologists (whoever they were) probably corrected a few things. In my opinion, this is acceptable practice.

It is not, however, proof that one book is superior to the other. Nor is it proof that either one is accurate, nor that it was authored or inspired by a supernatural being.

Jesse

You are assuming the existence of Satan, of which there is no scientific evidence. The evidence I have seen--such as absence of the Satan character in the Old Testament--suggests that Satan is a fictitious character rather than a real one.

From what I have read of the Quran, it also does not say "ayyam" means a long period of time. I know there is a Sura that says "to Allah a thousand years is like a day" (I can't remember the exact wording or the Sura number) but the Bible says that about Yahweh too. The subject of the verse is not the "ayyam" or "yom" in the creation story but how long God has existed. The verse does not show the "ayyam" in the creation story meant a long period of time.

In Hebrew, you would write "yom" with a preposition, such as "beyom", if you meant a long period of time and you would avoid writing it with a preposition if you meant 24 hours. In Genesis 1.1 through Genesis 2.3 the word "yom" is not with a proposition so the author meant 24 hours. In Genesis 2.4 you see "beyom," meaning a long period of time. (Genesis 2.4 talks about the first seven 24-hour days and later the many generations that descended from Adam and Eve. It is beginning a new part of the story.) Even if the author said nothing about day or night in Genesis 1.1-2.3, I could still find out what the author meant.

I cannot find any verses in the Quran that mention "ayyam" in the creation story as meaning a long period of time or 24 hours. I am also unable to find a good source of information on whether Arabic has rules like Hebrew in writing the word "ayyam". I have no way, at all, of knowing whether "ayyam" in the creation story meant a long period of time or 24 hours.

Let us suppose for the sake of argument, however, that it did mean a long period of time. What would that prove? It would prove nothing. One could divide any finite period of time into six parts (ayyam). The author of the text in the Quran could've thought 1,000 years or 10,000 years or even 13,500,000,000 years but you could say all of those time periods have six parts. Perhaps the author was clueless on how long the universe has existed, the author could've used six "ayyam" in this way also.

Saying there is an agreement between the Quran and science on how long the universe has been around is a claim that has no substance or value to it because the Quran could agree with any period of time. Overall, I am not impressed. Feel free to tell Dr. Zakir Naik that his reasoning was unpersuasive.

I agree.

Could you reword this? I'm confused about what you're trying to say.

I agree. I'm almost certain Dr. Zakir Naik knew "literary" would be more fitting, but apologists--whether Christian or Muslim--love to toss the word in. It's deceptive rhetoric.

I agree.

wais shirzai

what you are saying is same as the website of Faithfreedom says Alhamodlillah Our Muslim Brothers already Launched the website for the answer of Faithfreedom for more information about your Missconception about Dr.zakir naik refer to the website www.answering-faithfreedom.org Thank you almost all answer of faithfreedom and what is in your mind is answerd Beside Dr.zakir naik>?>

asalam alakom

peace be on you

it is mentioned in the First Kings, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 33, that… ‘Basha, he died in the 26th year of reign of Asa.’ And 2nd Chronicles Ch. No 16, Verse No 1, says that…‘Basha invaded Judah in the 36th years of the reign of Asa.’ How can Basha invade 10 years after his death?

Jesse

I said nothing of Dr. Zakir Naik beyond accusing him of deceptive rhetoric and unpersuasive arguments. I didn't need a source of information for those claims. As for the website, you didn't provide a direct link to the article where it supposedly rebutts my argument. I suspect you're main interest here is shamelessly advertising and making baseless accusations that I'm plagiarizing commonsense than in engaging in a civil discussion.

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SirArthur

I'm with you, I was looking over internet for a place to discuss over Agnosticism philosophy (luckily on this Forum we also find it), but get red when see those bottom categories and what was going on there, filled up with dogmatic preachers...

Wais, I don't care about what Allah ibn Muhammad (yes, I know what this means you don't need to tell me and I use "ibn" as "Son of his imagination") and his desires. Just tired of the cursed distorted laws cast on the unholy books.

And if you want me to say you're not making good on preaching Islam, thus I like you for not using Taqyyia but spread Islam as is with just a bit of failed attempts to distort is. Like that "Peace by Submission of Will" thing, that's the biggest argument AGAINST Islam, our Heroes from History are those who fought for their FREEDOM, such as William Wallace or Bourica, for those fought against big armies (Wallace the English army, Bourica - The Warrior Queen - the Almighty Roman Legions), lost their life but NEVER their Honor, submitted to no one, and as so got their names on the golden books of History.

Other than that, that rape crap, another nail on the coffin of Islam. Islam is useless to defend victims, it applauds the aggressors instead.

By now I believe you should stop trying...

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wais shirzai

Join the Forum of Answering-faithfreedom.org you can see it very well.

Sir Arthur
Other than that, that rape crap, another nail on the coffin of Islam. Islam is useless to defend victims, it applauds the aggressors instead.

as Far you accept my saying or not There is no Compulsion I believe that Mohammad is The Last Messenger of Allah(s.w.t) And there is only one god For my Self this Believe is Sufficient Thank you.

Surah Baqarah ch:2 versE:18

The Deaf,dumb,blind they will never return to the Right Path

Gospel of Mathew

Seeing they see not Hearing,They hear not Neither they could understand.



It is mentioned in the 2nd Kings, Ch. No 24, Verse No 8, that…‘Jehoiachin was 18 years old, when he began to reign Jerusalem, and he reigned for 3 months and 10 days. 2nd Chronicles, Ch. No 36, Verse No 9, says that…‘Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign and he reigned for 3 months, 10 days. Was Jehoiachin 18 years when he began to reign, or was he 8 years old? Did he reign for 3 months, or did he reign for 3 months 10 days?

Jesse

I will neither register to view an argument nor search through a forum to find it. Provide the argument or do not provide the argument. I have no interest in your shinanigins.

You say there is no compulsion in religion then suggest that if we do not join your religion we are deaf, dumb, and blind. Have you ever heard of peer pressure? That's compulsion.

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