God told women to STFU in church!

**George** · 03-13-2007, 11:52 PM

Quote:

1 Corinthians 14:33-35

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Quote:

A women should learn in quietness and in full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing - if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety. (1 Timothy 2:11-15)

Quote:

To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband and he will rule over you." (Genesis 3:16)

Sorry ladies... go sit in the corner and shut up.

JerryAgent · 03-15-2007, 11:28 PM

If you put these verses into context you would see that the intent is not to discriminate against women.

The second half of 1 Corinthians 15 tells how a church should be orderly. Before said verse it says that only one or two people should speak at a time. It was the culture at the time for women to avoid any confrontations, especially with men. In fact, in most Middle Eastern culture that is still true.

The quote does not say women cannot think and question, but that they should not do it in church, where it would be disruptive and "disorderly." You are mistaking a simple paragraph explaining how a church should conduct itself into discrimination against women.

The second quote, 1 Timothy, is again taken out of context. This passage is about a churches conduct in worship, and that the men should "lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing." (1 Timothy 2:8) Women should be quiet for the above reasons, it would cause a disturbance.

For a women to even do these things was miraculous, the Christian church gave more rights to women then they have ever had before in that culture's history.

As for Adam and Eve, it is not saying that Eve was the fault of the fall, but that they are held in equal responsiblity. There is an important "But" in the last verse. The fact that Adam and Eve were BOTH punished means they are held equal. God is not holding either gender above the other, and neither is Timothy. These are simply rules and regulations, the Bible can be very simple and clear cut at times.

Third quote from Genesis. Again, both men and women are punished. Women had to be subserviant to their husbands (as seen all over the world still) and men had to work hard to stay alive. Women were sentenced to obey, men were sentenced to work hard. The way I see it men get the tougher side of it, but that is probably my male bias coming out.

Look at Rahab, a prostitute that became one of the holiest female figures. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe King David descended from her bloodline, therefore so did Jesus. Look at Ruth, she is also an important figure.

Main point it, you cannot mistake their way of life as anything but that, their way of life. Again,the Christian church gave women many rights and freedoms they had never had before. Compared to America today, it seems like slavery. Back then they were more free then ever before.

MartheGod · 03-22-2007, 12:22 AM

If GOD is supposedly behind the Bible, then culture shouldn't matter. The Bible is SUPPOSED to be God's word. If it isn't God's word, why is it in the Bible? How can we believe in the Bible if everything isn't truly God's word? It IS discrimination against women and it IS sexist. Unless everything in the Biblie ISN'T God's word... That's a contradiction with the belief that the Bible is God's words. These words ARE in context, sorry. You can't explain these passages away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerryAgent

If you put these verses into context you would see that the intent is not to discriminate against women.

The second half of 1 Corinthians 15 tells how a church should be orderly. Before said verse it says that only one or two people should speak at a time. It was the culture at the time for women to avoid any confrontations, especially with men. In fact, in most Middle Eastern culture that is still true.

The quote does not say women cannot think and question, but that they should not do it in church, where it would be disruptive and "disorderly." You are mistaking a simple paragraph explaining how a church should conduct itself into discrimination against women.

The second quote, 1 Timothy, is again taken out of context. This passage is about a churches conduct in worship, and that the men should "lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing." (1 Timothy 2:8) Women should be quiet for the above reasons, it would cause a disturbance.

For a women to even do these things was miraculous, the Christian church gave more rights to women then they have ever had before in that culture's history.

As for Adam and Eve, it is not saying that Eve was the fault of the fall, but that they are held in equal responsiblity. There is an important "But" in the last verse. The fact that Adam and Eve were BOTH punished means they are held equal. God is not holding either gender above the other, and neither is Timothy. These are simply rules and regulations, the Bible can be very simple and clear cut at times.

Third quote from Genesis. Again, both men and women are punished. Women had to be subserviant to their husbands (as seen all over the world still) and men had to work hard to stay alive. Women were sentenced to obey, men were sentenced to work hard. The way I see it men get the tougher side of it, but that is probably my male bias coming out.

Look at Rahab, a prostitute that became one of the holiest female figures. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe King David descended from her bloodline, therefore so did Jesus. Look at Ruth, she is also an important figure.

Main point it, you cannot mistake their way of life as anything but that, their way of life. Again,the Christian church gave women many rights and freedoms they had never had before. Compared to America today, it seems like slavery. Back then they were more free then ever before.

JerryAgent · 03-22-2007, 08:54 AM

Then why are you interpreting the passages as an American would? Interpret it as someone that lived in that era in that country would.

I am not denying that society back then was sexist, because it was. But in comparison, these women were free.

As for the bible, these are letters to the churches inspired by God. I know the term "God's words" is mistakenly used a lot. But if Paul sent a letter giving the Church of Corinth to do anything they wanted, to be free as an American would put it, then it would be chaotic.

Aaron · 04-06-2007, 11:37 PM

Fortifying the notion that the bible was the work of man. If the bible were Gods word, it wouldn't be left open to interpretation. It wouldn't be tailored to a specific time or place.

jaej · 04-07-2007, 03:42 PM

Exactly. It's 'up to man' to decide what is relevant and what is not, and the things deemed irrelevant are always in accordance with society.

Tanglefoot · 05-02-2007, 08:33 PM

"The second quote, 1 Timothy, is again taken out of context."
_____________________________

Why is that the scripture we agree with is always crystal clear, but those we don't agree with always has a hidden message?

jaej · 05-02-2007, 10:53 PM

Because it's easy to believe the things you want to be true.

Chapstiquelova · 05-24-2007, 06:42 PM

In this church i believe the women were causing problems,,,and alot through the bible about women being in submission to men and calling them master, wasnt God commanding it was speaking of what happened then.
Have you studied these verses?

Romulus · 05-24-2007, 07:09 PM

In the reference you guys are talking about i believe Paul was refering to a group that was out to get the church and so they would disrupt services using women asking questions in the service. Also at the time from my understanding women werent as educated as the men so they would ask questions that theyr husbands understood perfectly well. So Paul, in order to keep the service running smoothly, wanted them to ask theyr husbands.