duck

Most of this discussion just reinforces my belief that the writings of Paul really need to be excluded from a modern bible. It is just so irrelevant.

milligal

Your thoughts make more sense than the fundamentalist ideas, but here's another catch:

Why does god allow us to be in this situation in the first place? Is it because two of our long lost ancestors sinned against him? Supposedly we were perfect in the beginning and some of the sin going around these days is because of evil influence...

Also, if god knows people's hearts then aren't we all pre-judged from the start? I mean if god sees a baby does he say'that person has a bad heart' if so, what's the point of letting this whole situation continue? Why not clean things up, and stop the suffering?

jaej

Chap, I can never quite make out what you're saying because of the goofy way you type, but I'll do my best.

Of course they don't want you to know they aren't your only route-they're not. You are your own person, free to live your own life and make your own choices without your parents controlling and condemning every step you take. This is one of the fundamental reasons your parent analogy is bull****.

Again, I'm not quite sure what this means. Are you saying even though god's power is absolute he doesn't use it in an absolute manner? Or are you saying god doesn't actively campaign for our discipleship? I'm not sure what relevance the 'bow down or BURN' part has, or how it's different from the previous part of the sentence. All I can say is, he can't want to save you too much, or he would try harder.

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Romulus

Everyone sins. What we deal with are our own sins. WE sin. its OUR sin that condems us. If the sin is caused by evil influence its still sin. Its still a choice. We all have chosen to sin of our own accord. Even if someone did not sin but refused to exept Jesus they would still be seperated from God, because refusing God is a sin and again God will not push himself on someone. If someone pushes him away theyr whole life then God will let that person be without him for eternity. As the person chose.

In response to your second paragraph. God does know everybodies heart but he gives us the choice. Even though he knows what will happen he still wants us to actually make the decision. He doesnt want people to be robots he wants us to be able to make the choice. Furthermore life isnt just suffering. Sure some of life is suffering but there is also wonderfull things in life.

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milligal

So you do not believe that humans were created perfect in god's image and Adam and Eve first sinned in the garden? That's what I had been taught as a christian.

I was in another thread in this forum and I realized that the single teaching that puts me off to christianity more than any other is the teaching that god is all powerful yet he allows people to suffer. You say there is a lot of good in life-I agree but the kind of suffering I'm talking about is like that of a teenage boy who is an orphan and is terminally ill. He is spending his last days in a hospital with no visitors. I went to college with one of the nurses who cared for him and she said he asked for drugs all the time because of the deep depression and fear. If I had the power to change that situation for that boy I would. I cannot abide by a god who could but won't.

I see the personality of god taught by christians as being inconsistent, loving yet cruel.

Romulus

Oh i do believe that thats how the first sin happened and all that but God doesnt punish people for other peoples sins. We each have sinned of our own accord... our own choice.

Deuteronomy 24:16
Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

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(\__/) This is Bunny. Copy and paste
(='.'=) Bunny into
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Joshua 24:15
As for me and my house we will serve the lord.

Aaron

Oh my god. From that pespective we are being punished for the sins of others. Of course we all sin because as you say it is human nature to sin.

We are not tempted to sin. We sin by our very nature. If our natural instincts are sinfull then why on earth did god make us that way.

Every step we make toward our survival results in sin.

What can we do to avoid sinning and live a good life?

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milligal

Be careful, don't contradict yourself.

In the flood, children were killed along with the parents who were judged as sinful, in Soddom and Gomorah the entire town was destroyed children along with parents, King David's baby with Bath Sheba was stillborn as a punishment to David for his sins, and look at the Jewish nation-according to christianity the entire nation was banished from god's blessing because of the behavior of the pharisees.

The scripture you have quoted below is one scripture alluding to one particular instance which you are using out of context. The entire nature of the bible is that your children will die with you for your sins so you'd better repent.

Aaron

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jaej

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?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????

Did you type this in your right mind? Or do you just not question your religion at all, and spew forth
what you learn at church? You do know our 'sin nature' is the direct result of 'someone else's sin' (Adam and Eve's)
and that, since we cannot help but sin because of someone else's sin (Adam and Eve passed their sin down to us,
giving us our sin nature), it logically follows that we are punished for the sin of another?

An omnipotent god couldn't fix this? Or didn't care enough. Or doesn't exist.

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