God told women to STFU in church! - Page 15

milligal · 07-13-2007, 12:42 PM

So you believe this invisible person will do something that you can't prove it'll do, before we humans are sent to a place there is no evidence exists?

That's great that you believe all this, but how could you expect anyone else to? You know what we call people today who say they see angels or demons or are contacted by spiritual beings? Skitzophrenic. Just because they hadn't diagnosed this yet at the time the bible was written doesn't make the symptoms any less apparent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Unfortunatly it didnt let me quote og on the post i wanted to quote him on because his post was a quote from someone else but his example was of a dragon that is invisible and that you cant use any tecknology to prove exists. However i believe that God does at one point wether sooner or later he does reveal himself to everyone or at least give them an oppurtunity to accept or reject him. God doesnt just let someone wonder weather or not he exists to the person's death and onto hell. God is just and if you go to hell its a result of your choice to reject him but if you go to heaven its a result of your choice to accept him and his forgiveness

Romulus · 07-17-2007, 07:20 PM

Im just stating what i believe. If you dont believe it or want to believe it then ok but if we both argued sarcastically about each others beliefs all day we wouldnt get anywhere.

And yes, i believe that God, who i have not physically seen, will give each person a chance to recieve him or reject him before they die.

In order to prove the fallacies of the example of the dragon I would first have to prove God's influence. God does influence many things in the world but if someone has set themselves up against the idea of God then it doesnt matter how much evidence or how accurate of evidence it wont make a difference.

However here is one difference between the example of the dragon and God. And the difference is shown in this verse...
Matthew 7:7
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
In the case of the dragon the individual was brought to the dragon and then the individual searched for a way to find the dragon and none was found. If you as an individual search for the truth about God you will find it.

Aaron · 07-17-2007, 10:07 PM

I respect your beliefs Romulus. I really do. Sometimes I wish I could have that much faith in someting so untangible.

Understand that you are arguing faith against logic. I have not seen one logical argument in any of your posts. When confronted by logic, you resort to quoting scripture which has no valid basis.

Has it ever crossed your mind that you can still have faith without buying into organized religion? You can have faith and still recognize logic. All you have to do is disregard the idea that you know the truth, because you don't.

duck · 07-17-2007, 11:04 PM

Aaron, the ultimate argument for a person of deep faith is to quote the bible. Unfortunately, to those of us who do not hold the regard for the bible that a person such as Romulus has, these quotes have limited or little meaning. And have less importance in the overall debate, since we find them nearly meaningless in the debate.

Og · 07-18-2007, 05:51 AM

To me, faith is following the observable and reproducible and independently verifiabl truth wherever it leads me even when I don't know where it will lead me.

Chapstiquelova · 07-18-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Aaron, the ultimate argument for a person of deep faith is to quote the bible. Unfortunately, to those of us who do not hold the regard for the bible that a person such as Romulus has, these quotes have limited or little meaning. And have less importance in the overall debate, since we find them nearly meaningless in the debate.

When we talk about God we quote the bible, becuz it is Gods inspired word.

milligal · 07-18-2007, 01:12 PM

Heres the thing:
Religious people use the bible to support their stand and 'prove' that what they are projecting is valid even when they are talking to people who do not believe the bible, because it is not a historical document. Why don't you use some other venue to prove your point? Is it because there isn't one?

I'm not arguing sarcastically about your beliefs I'm challenging them with valid arguments and reasoning. To answer the challenge effectively you have to remember that I am agnostic, and I do not believe the bible is god's word, so you can quote it all day-I've already read it three times. You're not telling me anything new.

As far as people NOT wanting to believe in god, I think you've missed half the introductions on this forum where individuals have stated they came away from religion. Frankly who wants to leave what they were taught? I've lost most of my childhood family and friends because I've changed my beliefs-you can bet I searched and studies long and hard before making this life changing decision. I happen to see things the other way around, it is religious people who will believe in god and the bible no matter what evidence is provided them in opposition to their beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Im just stating what i believe. If you dont believe it or want to believe it then ok but if we both argued sarcastically about each others beliefs all day we wouldnt get anywhere.

And yes, i believe that God, who i have not physically seen, will give each person a chance to recieve him or reject him before they die.

In order to prove the fallacies of the example of the dragon I would first have to prove God's influence. God does influence many things in the world but if someone has set themselves up against the idea of God then it doesnt matter how much evidence or how accurate of evidence it wont make a difference.

However here is one difference between the example of the dragon and God. And the difference is shown in this verse...
Matthew 7:7
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
In the case of the dragon the individual was brought to the dragon and then the individual searched for a way to find the dragon and none was found. If you as an individual search for the truth about God you will find it.

milligal · 07-18-2007, 01:13 PM

If you are using a venue to prove your beliefs, and that venue is not universally accepted and accredited, on what grounds do you suppose it will help your argument?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapstiquelova

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Aaron, the ultimate argument for a person of deep faith is to quote the bible. Unfortunately, to those of us who do not hold the regard for the bible that a person such as Romulus has, these quotes have limited or little meaning. And have less importance in the overall debate, since we find them nearly meaningless in the debate.

When we talk about God we quote the bible, becuz it is Gods inspired word.

duck · 07-18-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milligal

If you are using a venue to prove your beliefs, and that venue is not universally accepted and accredited, on what grounds do you suppose it will help your argument?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chapstiquelova

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Aaron, the ultimate argument for a person of deep faith is to quote the bible. Unfortunately, to those of us who do not hold the regard for the bible that a person such as Romulus has, these quotes have limited or little meaning. And have less importance in the overall debate, since we find them nearly meaningless in the debate.

When we talk about God we quote the bible, becuz it is Gods inspired word.

This is the heart of the matter that I have been arguing myself blue in the face over. Like Milligal said in the previous post: You can quote that bible all day long, and it really means very little to me and a great many of the members here. It is not god's inspired word. If anything, it is quite human in its content.

Romulus · 07-18-2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milligal

Heres the thing:
Religious people use the bible to support their stand and 'prove' that what they are projecting is valid even when they are talking to people who do not believe the bible, because it is not a historical document. Why don't you use some other venue to prove your point? Is it because there isn't one?

As far as people NOT wanting to believe in god, I think you've missed half the introductions on this forum where individuals have stated they came away from religion. Frankly who wants to leave what they were taught? I've lost most of my childhood family and friends because I've changed my beliefs-you can bet I searched and studies long and hard before making this life changing decision. I happen to see things the other way around, it is religious people who will believe in god and the bible no matter what evidence is provided them in opposition to their beliefs.

In your first paragraph you asked why i dont use another venue. Well one reason is because any other venue is inferior. Also because much of the conversation is about what the Bible says. So if im gonna say the Bible says something then theres nothing better to do then pull support for what im saying the Bible says right out of the Bible.

Now if im trying to make a post to scientifically prove the Bible's accuracy then i would agree with you that there needs to be evidence outside scripture as well as the scripture to support it. But as is im mostly posting my interpretation of the Bible and what it says so my posts obviously contain lots and lots of scripture.

You said most of the people on here have fallen away from the faith rather then come from an athiests familly and so you say it couldnt be a matter of not wanting to believe but i would say that not wanting to believe is a big part of it. See if your in a familly that tells you you have to be a christian or believe in a religion then your more likely to be resistant to it. more rebellious.
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Some of you may be just seeking, you still believe but you just dont know about it because you dont think theres enough evidence. Some of you may have rejected Christianity altogether. I dont know where you all are. My brother decided there was more evidence for atheism then Christianity so he now calls himself an athiest.
I do believe some people fall away from the faith because they genuinly believe there isnt enough evidence. However I also believe that God can and will eventually give them a chance to choose him and reject him. If someone genuinly wants solid evidence for God then i believe God will give that to them eventually. But if someone just wants to critisize God and reject him I think they will reject the evidence to its face and make up a reason why it doesnt prove God. God is a just God. He doesnt allow people to go to hell simply because they were ignorant of him. If someone goes its because they chose to reject him.

"God doesnt send people to hell, they send themselves"

If they choose to be seperated from God over God then God will allow them to be seperated.