Belief a CHOICE?

rstrats · 03-12-2007, 12:39 PM

The description for this forum, “The Bible”, is given as: “Discussion of the bible and it's many flaws and why people still choose to believe. “

Is there and implication in that statement that beliefs can be consciously CHOSEN?

Og · 03-12-2007, 02:58 PM

Huh? what are you talkin about?

Welcome, too

rstrats · 03-12-2007, 03:32 PM

Og,

re: “Huh? what are you talkin about?”

The phrase “choose to believe” is used in the forum description. I am merely inquiring as to it’s meaning. Is it suggesting that people have the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things?

Sapphira1212 · 03-12-2007, 08:00 PM

Yes, people always make the choice to believe things. Belief is nothing but a choice in my opinion.

**The An-Jel** · 03-12-2007, 11:43 PM

Yeah that sounds about right Sapph! I think the idea about this thread to discuss the Biblical concepts and how they are presented to the people. Just as simple as that. They are a choice cause obviously some people choose not to believe them. There you go!

**debdodd** · 03-13-2007, 12:06 AM

I think there are many more gospols that belong in the bible that most people don't even know about. The Dead Sea Scrolls are an important discovery that needs to be studied and add the text once studied, & place it in the bible. Modern Clergy men do not seem to want to include any of the gospel that they discovered in the urns at the caves around the Dead Sea,

You are completely right when you say that it is ultimately your choice, making the right choice is helped by reading studies by people who are further along in their studies.

Are you new to agnostism or is this something you've been thinking about for a while?

I'm going to let you go ... time to unwind ....

Debs

rstrats · 03-13-2007, 08:20 AM

Sapphira1212,

re: “Yes, people always make the choice to believe things. Belief is nothing but a choice in my opinion.”

Perhaps you can help me, then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you seem to be implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, “OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ‘x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ‘x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ‘x’ exists or is true? ? Saint Pats is just around the corner, so maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is “a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron.” So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

Og · 03-13-2007, 08:39 AM

Well... Most people refer to "faith" as "choosing to believe even when there's not evidence" (which seems idiotic to me). But that seems to be the stance of many people.

They want to believe so they choose to believe.

It certainly doesn't have the value in life that a belief based on evidence and observation has. Personally, I don't call evidence a belief.

I don't like the word belief and pretty much say that i don't believe in anything. Only what I see, and I'm willing to let it change if I see something different.

I think that belief and faith are kind of intertwined. As for having evidence and "believing" in that sense of the word, I don't think you can choose to believe or disbelieve what your senses perceive unless we're all schizophrenic or something.

Og · 03-13-2007, 08:40 AM

Furthermore, christianity is a creed religion. You have to profess it. You have to say "I believe" even in the face of other options with equally absent evidence.

Journeyman · 03-13-2007, 01:47 PM

Paul Tillich says this,

"The terminilogical inquiry has led us into the the material problem itself. Faith does not confirm nor deny what belongs to the prescientific or scientific knowledge of our world, whether we know it by direct experience or through the experience of others. The knowledge of our world is a matter of inquiry of ourselves or those whom we trust. It is not a matter of faith. The dimension of faith is not the dimension of science, history, or psychology. The acceptance of a probable hypothesis in these realms is not faith, but preliminary belief, to be tested by scholarly methods and to be changed by every new discovery. Almost all the struggles between faith and knowledge are rooted in the wrong understanding of faith as a type of knowledge which has a low degree of evidence. It is, however, not only confusion of faith with knowledge that is responsible for the world historical conflicts between them; it is also the fact that matters of faith in the sense of ultimate concern lie hidden behind an assumedly scientific method. Whenever this happens, faith stands against faith and not against knowledge."

His theology is very complicated, but goes on to say that faith is the "state of being ultimately concerned". Yada, yada, yada...I don't have enough time to go into it, but he basically is stating that faith has been confused with belief.