Mortalsfool

I think that you are right. You just can't just to choose to believe something; although this happens all the time when people join some group, like a church.
They all too easily accept the whole basketfull of the doctrines, and in fact become defenders of many things that they never had any reason to accept. But 'Brother Bill' or whoever was 'called'!

It is the subjective part of us that demands that we do in fact have a reason to believe something, not a whim.

rstrats

Mortalsfool

re: “I think that you are right. You just can't choose to believe something; although this happens all the time...”


Huh????????????

Mortalsfool

[rstrats=]Huh????????????[/quote]

Perhaps I should clarify what I mean when I say that it can't be done, and then say 'it happens all the time.'

I really mean that some people have what they will call 'a belief' for all of the wrong reasons.

Like understanding something intellectually, but not having an actual understanding. For example, they can join a church, which I believe is the easiest example, and their reasons for claiming the beliefs that go with that orginization, are not for some deep felt faith, but because it was where their family went; or because of its' social aspects; or because they feel it's a 'nice church'; or any of the many reasons that people adopt some self- satisfying facade and call it 'a belief'.

Like a person that says he believes in the six day creation, while his own reasoning makes his professed belief appear nonsensical; and yet continues to claim that he believes it in spite. He is trying to believe. That is what I mean when I say ‘it happens all the time’.

Mortalsfool

If your asking me if I'm new to agnosticism, somewhat. About three years ago I decided to put my mind into the same frame of a very brilliant man who was a staunch atheist. So far as I know right up until he died.

It was a particularly scarey thing for a believer to do. What I learned in that period is that I'm an agnostic with a very high degree of faith. Common sense and logic demands that I question everything in my mind, but there is a lot of subjective evidence that I've not found any reason to discount. Hence, I'm a questioning believer.

Maximus

I find it ironic how right now on this site there's an ad on the top right hand corner that says " Faith Matters "......LMAO!

rstrats

Mortalsfool,

re: “Like a person that says he believes in the six day creation, while his own reasoning makes his professed belief appear nonsensical; and yet continues to claim that he believes it in spite. He is trying to believe. That is what I mean when I say ‘it happens all the time’”.


I’m still confused. You say twice in the first part of the paragraph that the person believes, but then you end it by saying that he is only trying to believe.

Mortalsfool

I said he 'says he believes' and 'claims he believes'. It's like a person that belongs to a church and never really questions his 'beliefs'. He will proclaim his membership in the church and his beliefs for all the wrong reasons, social, family, or just plain old conformity. His beliefs are based on hope that those he follows are right.

An example would be like; it he knew all about evolution and how it conforms to all the requirements of common sense, but still he chooses he believe in the six day creation in spite of it's obvious discrepancies with what he 'knows' to be more probable.
He is trying to believe because it’s what he would rather believe.

rstrats

Mortalsfool,

re: “I said he 'says he believes' and 'claims he believes'. It's like a person that belongs to a church and never really questions his 'beliefs'. He will proclaim his membership in the church and his beliefs for all the wrong reasons, social, family, or just plain old conformity. His beliefs are based on hope that those he follows are right. An example would be like; it he knew all about evolution and how it conforms to all the requirements of common sense, but still he chooses to believe in the six day creation in spite of it's obvious discrepancies with what he 'knows' to be more probable. He is trying to believe because it’s what he would rather believe.”


I guess I'm just not smart enough to understand what you are saying, because that still sounds contradictory.

Also, I don’t see what believing “for all the wrong reasons” has to do with the discussion.