Belief a CHOICE? - Page 3

rstrats · 03-15-2007, 01:00 PM

Fire Legion,

re: “ Otherwise, belief is always a choice.”

I would ask you the same question that I asked Sapphira1212 (who has yet to respond) in my post #7.

rstrats · 03-26-2007, 08:03 AM

I see no difference in the two words, “faith” and “belief”, as far as the end result is concerned. They both hold a conviction - without any doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true. The question is whether or not a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to have a conviction about something, and if so, how is it possible?

Tanglefoot · 05-02-2007, 01:51 PM

When a preacher says that "I know this" and " I know that" , it really turns me off. They don't know, they believe or have faith in something. If Christians knew, they would be known as "knowers", not believers. If a person actually knew his beliefs were true (which he doesn't), then that person would not have no need for faith.

pseudonous · 05-10-2007, 11:22 PM

Sure, you can choose. But not many change over night. In my experience noone chooses there thoughts like a robot. You can, however, choose to listen to the thoughts of others. This gives you some control over your thoughts, which I call choice.

rstrats · 05-11-2007, 01:20 PM

pseudonous,

re: “Sure, you can choose. But not many change over night. In my experience noone chooses there thoughts like a robot. You can, however, choose to listen to the thoughts of others. This gives you some control over your thoughts, which I call choice. “

So you’re saying that you cannot consciously CHOOSE to believe - be convinced, without a doubt - that someone or something does or doesn’t exist, or that a certain proposition is or isn’t true? I was hoping to hear from someone who can.

Og · 05-11-2007, 01:35 PM

I just saw spider man 3 (piece of crap movie). At the end, spiderman's voice over went all serious about the choice that harry (green goblin's son) made to support spider man in the end.

In fact, harry made no choice. Before he decided to help spider man, he thought that spider man killed his father. He was acting rationally based on that false bit of knowledge. After the butler told him that he was wrong, he continued to act rationally with the information he had and helped spider man to make up for being wrong.

There was no choice involved. He was simply responding to the situation rationally. But spiderman's voice over went all epic on how big of a deal this is.

Belief is crap. Rational Action is where the power is. That's what should be made a virtue. Not irrational belief (faith).

pseudonous · 05-11-2007, 03:07 PM

I believe a person can consciously choose to think that a certain proposition is or isn't true. They can even withhold judgment if they feel no need to make a decision.

It's just that you would have to have a want or desire to accept a new belief. It would have to have some value to you great enough in comparison to the value of the incompatible propositions you would have to give up. Also you are not free to choose the thoughts your subconscious mind gives to your conscious mind. So they only way you can consciously choose is to go out observe the world around you and speak to different people. In this way your making a consciencous choice to learn new things and if you want to adopt new ideas and disinherit old ones.

To me it's sort of like a theory of partial determinism. You don't have complete free will but indirectly you can make some choices.

Og · 05-11-2007, 03:13 PM

But don't people have REASON for "choosing" to believe a thing? Don't the reasons account for their behavior versus some non-distinct individual thing making arbitrary choices?

You have some information about a situation and you "choose" by comparing the situation to your internal value system. You do not randomly select something. You have reason. Where is will in this equation? Can will only enter into the equation if you act in something of an irrational fashion? Wouldn't you have a reason for acting that way too?

In the end, there is basis for our behavior that can be found in our environment and in our state of mind. We behave in response to our environments. Will is an illusion.

Piglet · 05-12-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rstrats

I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you seem to be implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it.

rstrats

Wow, more than that, wowowow

I have never heard a human being say what you have said
You are a true anomaly.

Piglet 'believes things' based on standard set through epistemology.
Like a test or 'bar' it can be adjusted.

A human being can be both a processor of information and a feeling being.
Piglet is such.
Information is NOT anything to do with emotion.
Science is nothing to do with emotion.
THINKING beings process information by there own standards.

Most humans do this unconsciously.
[thus general opinion/understanding is crap, full of emotion and ideas from others.
People actually believe what their governments and preachers tell them.
They have no quality control so what else can you expect]
Those who 'care' emplace and understand the standard/bar they set.
Based on what they know and empirical understanding of how reality works
Sometimes, wisdom results.

Piglet

rstrats · 05-12-2007, 01:18 PM

Piglet,

re: “I have never heard a human being say what you have said
You are a true anomaly.”

An anomaly with regard to what, specifically? Are you saying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things?