The An-Jel

It really looks in the way this man is stating it that "art" of humans trying to take absolute control of their environment especially in the face of enormous variables that show that humans are far from in control of anything as of yet... so they go from belief to mythology to religion to faith even as science is refuting these beliefs with scientific evidence and proof. Does that sum it up accurately enough?

Scary enough in itself just thinking about the concept of faith. I could never quite ever do it so I invented my own concepts of the universe in fiction just for fun and possibility.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Journeyman

He would say that our Ultimate Concern, whatever that may be, is our god. But, he believes there is an infinite source that all life has sprung from, the ground of being itself that is not existence or being, and we are finite beings that yearn for the infinite. It is our existential encounter with the threat of our non-being(death) that causes us to search for and participate in this infinite. This Ultimate Concern does not have to be God, but it could be a nation, money, etc...When we surrender ourselves to whatever we love the most it causes us to sacrifice other parts of our lives and we become separated to our ultimate concern, therefore we are holy. One can participate in demonic holiness, or the holiness from authenticity. He says that our state in which we are passionate and surrendering to this ultimate concern is faith. Faith is the center of our person. It is not reason, or doubt, but has elements of both in it along with the other elements that comprise the personality. He borrows a a lot from Freud. He also states that no one should take the Bible literally. That symbol is the language of faith. That a symbol is language that points beyond itself and participates in that which it points to. Like our national flag is more than a flag. It represents our country...The resurrection, to him, was a symbol of the opportunity to become a new creation. We can be resurrected now as Jesus was, symbolically.

It gets even more complex, but many theolgians considered him to be the Athiests Theologian. I thought he was genius. I hope this explains it a little.

Og

Sounds like you could be describing a chemical addiction or something.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Journeyman

Absolutley, it could be a drug, a lifestyle, but ultimately one would be disappointed and realize that those are actually finite. It is only when one surrenders to the infinite that one discovers God.

I have to admit, I find it really interesting. He and a couple of others are why I held on to my Christian faith for so long. Unfortunately, at the end of the day his philisophical approach still leaves one empty and craving something more substanative.

Fire Legion

It all depends on the circumstances. Sometimes you're indoctrinated in a belief at a young age before you've had a chance. Otherwise, belief is always a choice. You always own your own thoughts. What you say on the other hand...

Og

I don't think most people have any idea what infinite means. I think things like this are a bunch of hand waving. Is there such a thing as infinite? There seems to be finite matter in the universe. There seem to be a finite number of possible states given quantum mechanically allowed levels of molecules. There seems to be a finite time back into history to what looks like a big bang...

What exactly do you mean (really) when you say infinite? How exactly do you surrender yourself to the infinite? I know this is what gets kicked around in rehab a lot, but really it just seems like you're trading one higher power (drugs) for another and giving it control over you.

Is infinite something other than a mental construct of mathematics in our head? Would that mean that the God that you discover is then also a mental construct in our head?

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Journeyman

I think Tillich begins with an assumption of a God as being infinite and all else finite. He also said,
"It is not the unconditional demand made by that which is one's ultimate concern, it is also the promise of ultimate fulfillment which is accepted in the act of faith."
He would say the ultimate concern can be pinpointed by one's ultimate fulfillment and all finite fulfillments are eventually revealed and let us down. ie. nationalism, promise of wealth and hapiness, etc.
I don't subscribe to his philosophy either, I was just attempting to give another perspective or definition of faith from a Christian viewpoint.
I can't really argue for him since his system has been revealed as a finite ultimate concern.lol......

Og

OK, was just asking for clarification on the term infinite. Sounds like he didn't know what he was talking about.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Journeyman

Well, I probably have done his thought an injustice...in all fairness he was incredibly intelligent.

Og

woot, 500 posts.. i just realized. On with the pips!

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are