MickinEngland

Thanks mate, email me if you like but I prefer talking in open forums like this one so everybody can marvel at my wit and intellect ;)
For example this stunning article below addresses your question so lets present it for general consumption -

SCHOOLS OUT FOREVER by Mick
People wonder why the Old Testament was so harsh. The answer is that God has never changed, but the way he had to package himself to get his message across HAS changed, he had to talk in harsh primitive OT terms to earlier harsh primitive peoples in their own "language" like a strict headteacher to get their attention.
"The law brought us to Christ like a schoolmaster,but now through Christ we are not under that schoolmaster" (Gal 3:22-25)
(Likewise, when Ryker in Star Trek joined Klingon vessel Pagh on an exchange visit as 1st Officer he had to punch and throw stroppy Klingon 2nd Officer Klag across the bridge to get the attention and respect of him and the rest of the crew )
When God felt the time was right to package himself in a softer way to more advanced peoples, he gave us Jesus who came not to abolish the OT wholesale, but to show us how to apply its rules with enlightened goodnatured commonsense.
Jesus said - "It was said 'eye for eye,tooth for tooth' but I say turn the other cheek" (Matt 5:38/39)
And people quickly realised - "The covenant of Jesus is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6-13)
Remember, Jesus saves, not the OT ;)
Right Spock?
Right Mick..

MickinEngland

Ha ha ha, open your mind ;)
For example instead of actual animals, think "DNA samples", and instead of Ark think "DNA storage facility", and instead of floodwaters think "environmental pressure to spiritually/physically evolve or die"..

DizzyDee

We've discussed this before Mick - the Bible is not a historical record and was not written be direct witnesses. Check out vfn's post with all the links about the reliability of the Bible as a historical record. comparing the evidence for the existence of Elvis and the evidence for the existence of Jesus are in totally separate realms - one in reality and one in fantasy.

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DizzyDee

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

MickinEngland

Dunno what this baby is but it sure ain't no pet poodle, sounds like Godzilla to me -
Job chapter 40 -
"See now behemoth, which I made along with you; he eats grass as an ox.
his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
He moves his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach him.
Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
He lies under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
See, he drinks up a river, and hastes not: he trusts that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
He takes it with his eyes: his nose pierces through snares"

mplltt

I think that there is a sort of confusion or dialation of truth that goes on witht the old testament and the Torah. The old testament withholds the order of the original Torah that is held so true. I think that the Jews have is the written word in the chronology of the order they have compiled witht the Torah. I think that the christian bible, no, in fact I know that the bible uses illigitimately the old testament in order to prove that there is a messiah that is some great prophet. I am human, and I don't believe that there is anything less than my own 23 chromosomes to hold my 98% water compsosition, but I know that there is no legitimacy in the interpretation of the bible that says that we should preach about great miracles in order to tell people that THEY ARE WRONG in order for us to die by stoning, hanging or something else... no that would not be awesome.
I think that there is some good basis for what you say, lemmex. I think that there are a lot of problems with the church and I have a whole slew of theories on the establishment which are like the illuminati or free masons that I have written on this web page. I think that the church is a tool of crowd control and it has a lot of issues with the way that I have been posting. Views are up, lets use indellible elucidation in order to condense the information. Up to it?

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Thank you, I am impressed that you are forgiving enough to approach this line of reasoning.

}SOC{Spector17

Dinosaurs are mentioned in the Bible here:

Job 40:15-18

I mean come on, any animal with a tail like a cedar tree has to be pretty big. And for anyone who want to know, this is a cedar tree. http://www.mountainviewbnb.com/images/cedar_tree.jpg

About Job 41
And Job 41 describes what is a dragon. Ok before you are moaning that I believe in dragons, let me say one thing: Pretty much every ancient nation on Earth has some writing on dragons. Why can dragons be found in all the world mythologies? Dragon pictures are found in Africa, India, Europe, the Middle East, the Orient and every other part of the world. There must of once been dragons alive on Earth .Source: History Of Dragons and related links.





I agree, nowhere in the bible mentions that Adam and Eve can write. Yes it does mention that they communicate with God, but nowhere does it mention writing.

@ George what version of the bible are you reading? My Bible has nowhere that near of that translation; the story doesn’t even match up. Nowhere in Genesis does it mention fasting. Where are you getting that link? Please provide a place in the NIV Bible, where it mentions Adam or Eve writing.

Yes, because it is a collection off 66 books, written by 40 authors, over at least 2000 years, over 3 continents, in 3 different languages, and not one part of the Bible contradicts itself

Also, The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.
For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.
There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects. (source: How do we know the Bible is true? - ChristianAnswers.Net)

Also, The Bible is unique also in terms of its effect on individual men and on the history of nations. It is the all-time best seller, appealing both to hearts and minds, beloved by at least some in every race or nation or tribe to which it has gone, rich or poor, scholar or simple, king or commoner, men of literally every background and walk of life. No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects. Therefore it must be true. I won’t even mention the historical or scientific evidence. In all of my mind, I have no the slightest doubt that the Bible is true.

Does God exist? Read this, Does God Exist.
And then disagree here. I'm waiting.
This question is uncertain in that we do not know the exact date of the writing of the Vedas AND both the Vedas and the Bible were written down over the period of centuries. So we must assume that we are comparing the oldest portions of each. If we take the best and most probable date for the Vedas we would be about 1500 BC. If Moses wrote the first book of the Bible (Genesis), the date of his writing would be about the same as the Exodus of Israel from Egypt, about 1490BC. In this case we are comparing a rather uncertain date (the Vedas) with a rather certain date (the Exodus) and we are merely 10 years in separation. This is too close to call. For either Hindus or Christians to claim that the writings they have were composed earliest is simply not certain enough to make any strong definitive stand.

About this: A List Of Biblical Contradictions. Give me time, but I will respond to everyone “contradiction pf the Bible,” and prove that they are not really contridictions.

I got to go to bed, but I will respond to the posts of this forum

SithLord

Nice try kid.

Problem... your description above also mentions fire coming from it's mouth and scales. I don't know of any dinosaurs like that.. do you?

So what are you going to do? What every christian does when they try to use the bible as a literal record but get caught up in an incosistancy? You gonna back pedal and say it wasn't all meant to be taken literally... just the parts that fit your needs right?

Come on....

Listen let's just go ahead and admit what we all know they were really talking about. All those passages that describe huge beasts are talking about fire breathing dragons. Now in a book about mythical beings and awesome feats of magic a fire breathing dragon fits in their fine.

(Also interesting that somehow conveniently all those magical wonderous events that took place in the bible don't happen today when we have video cameras and the ability to document them... hmmmmmmmmm....)

__________________
"Relax, I'm here to offend you" - SithLord

MickinEngland

Are you saying the Bible mentions dragons?
Good for you mate, now you see why its such a fascinating book!
It also speaks of giants, ghosts, aliens, ufo's, replication of matter, levitation etc ;)
In fact dragons are mentioned 30 times in the bible ;)
Dragons -- Dragons in the Bible

SithLord

* Causation. God provides the best explanation for the existence of the universe and all that's in it. (The alternative theory is that "nothing" exploded and resulted in everything that we see.)
No... you see the problem with the whole argument of trying to put the burden of proof on science is it's too easy to throw it right back at you... See when you try to get into a discussion of definites with cause and affect you lose. Because when you get into a cause and effect debate pertaining to the universe's origin and try to give the credit to your God the burden then falls on you to explain where God came from.... oops you no longer seem to be sitting there with all the answers (in the form of God and the gospel) when that questions is asked eh? Now what was that article saying about who is taking the bigger "leap of faith"?

* Order. God provides the best explanation for abstract notions such as numbers, mathematical formulae, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. (The alternative theory is that the chaotic first elements ordered themselves into complex information systems.)
Your God provides the best explanation because why? You say so? Remember God used to also be the best explanation of why it rains and global weather patterns... we know better now....

* Design. God provides the best explanation for the absolute complexity inherent in cosmological, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological systems. (The alternative theory is that random chance engineered apparent design.)
* Encoded Instructions. God provides the best explanation for the digital DNA code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. (The alternative theory is that complex code, such as binary code running computers, can pop into existence without any kind of programming, testing and debugging process.)
No the best explanation is called evolution. Life learns, life evolves. Our brains got bigger and we got smarter through natural selection and became the dominant creature on earth. The end. "The code" had billions of years of trial and error (mutations and failed species) to get it right. Life gained it's complexity and intelligence through billions of years of learning. Not one magic being. You study for billions of years and I bet you could write some pretty wicked code yourself.

What if life itself started not from the whim of God but from a small cosmic rock that hit earth after breaking off some other unknown planet in the universe that had life on it..... Can your bible offer any proof that that is not possible??


* Irreducible Complexity. God provides the best explanation for fully functioning biological organisms, systems, and subsystems that couldn’t come about through gradual evolutionary process without totally ceasing to exist at lower, evolutionary levels. (The alternative theory is that biological systems took huge, unseen leaps from simple to complex without any guided process or forward-looking instructions.)
That's a pretty big "leap of faith" to say "that couldn’t come about through gradual evolutionary process without totally ceasing to exist at lower, evolutionary levels."

Also there are PLENTY of scientific records where scientists were tracking the evolution of now extinct creatures that suddenly took a huge evolutionary jump. Sea creatures that lost their gills and became land animals in a relatively short evolutionary time. Spontaneous mutations in nature happen all the time and scientists are figuring out more and more how they work. Once science cracks the code of life fully (DNA research is very advanced already) the truth about it's origins and all that we are discussing will be known to us. Then who will you worhip and give credit for creation?


* Duality. God provides the best explanation for the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind). (The alternative theory is monism -- only matter exists and the human brain only appears to have a separate subconscious ability.)
We also thought God was in the clouds till airplanes.... yet even today christians point to the sky when talking about God and heaven. Group psychology and beliefs. This whole we don't know so God must be the answer is why we laugh at ancient Greeks for making up a God to explain everything they didn't understand.

Tell me you don't see the similarities in this argument.

* Morality. God provides the best explanation for the existence of love, emotion, altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. (The alternative theory is that unguided materialistic processes evolve higher human consciousness.)
Yet when people pray nothing happens. There is no God watching us and giving a rat's butt about our trivial little lives. All those emotions morals and laws are learned traits over thousands of years of social evolution.

__________________
"Relax, I'm here to offend you" - SithLord

Bfpri

You mean who made God? And the definites with cause and effect also states that everything which has a beginning has a cause. Saying that God had a beginning would be ludicrous. Remember Albert Einstein;, time matter space?

Then explain the creation of matter from nothing from a scientific perspective using concrete evidence. All Matter had a beginning correct?