George

Lyric, all due respect I think his point wasn't that Christians are naive enough... or for that matter even have a choice anymore since there is proof.... to deny that dinosaurs existed. I think his point was to say how do you explain their nonexistance in the bible? I find that at the point in the argument when that question is asked Christians usually pull out the "faith" issue in lieu of a proper answer. So I'm curious.
Again I'm curious. How do you explain all of the passages where Adam and Eve are talking and writing? There's interpretation and then there's good old fashioned reading comprehension 101.

This is not an attack. I'm just extremely fascinated at how when faced with utter inconcistencies and other things that have been flat out proven wrong by science today people still base their faith on the bible. Just saying the bible isn't the only book available on the subject

The bottom line for me is that the bible was written in a time when the human race was so young and our knowledge was so limited that we needed it to help explain things and satisfy our curiosity long enough for us to find the answers ourselves. The struggle comes now that we are finding those answers some of us still cling to those old answers. Some out of pure tradition and others unfortunately (religious leaders) because it is the last remnant of their withering power over the masses.

I ask you.... when you talk about heaven do you still point up into the atmosphere where planes fly today and satelites fly above that with digital imagery of the entire planet? Remember how before man ever believed we could fly we believed heaven was "up there"?

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Brandon

I'm alittle late to this discussion so here's what I think.

1) the existance of Dinosaurs has no relation to the Bible being flawed. One point of view held by Christians is that dinosaurs lived along side man. If this is true so what? The bible doesn't explicitly mention every animal in creation. "The Bible never mentions peacocks, yet peacocks are known to exist - therefore the bible is flawed" - obviously this thought is ridiculous. Besides, like lyric mentioned, some verses (besides the dragon reference George mentioned) could possibly be talking about dinos. (somewhere in Job I think)

Another view held by some Christians is that the earth is really really old and dinos were extinct long before man came. This view is called 'Old Earth' by many christians and allows room for some of the scientific(?) views held by many. If this was the case then the bible wouldn't mention them of course, because they weren't around. Remember, eventhough the Bible is the inspired word of God, it is still INSPIRED, meaning that men wrote it according to what they knew at the time. The meanings remain the same.

2) Adam and Eve and cavemen? Umm... where is the flaw? Adam and Eve were Neanderthals. Nowhere, to my recollection, does the bible mention Adam and Eve writing anything. They did communicate but i'm sure it wasn't through the complex language skills we have today. I'm still confused as to what the flaw is here.

DizzyDee

Hey Brandon,

There is no scientific evidence that dinosaurs and man lived together, even if there are references in the Bible aside from the one George mentioned that could be dinosaurs. Christians who try to fit billions of years of existence into the short time span of the Bible are just sticking their head in the sand when it comes to how old the earth is.

Your second point about Christians who believe in an old earth, is a much more reasonable ground for believers, as is your description of an Inspired scripture - men doing their best to explain their world as they see it. However, that seems to fly in the face of the idea of an inerrant scripture, which I believe most evangelical christians accept. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am.

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"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

George

Again, science proves that dinosaurs existed alongside neandrathal man. Not civilized man with reading and writing skills. Nice try though.

With so many different versions doesn't it get tough for you after a while to deep down in you heart believe all that? I mean scientists admit they don't know everything whereas the bible though written by men proposes itself to be the word of God so should be inherently flawless no? The fact that you have to stretch it that far in order for you to still believe in it should be enough to raise some doubt in the logical side fo your brain but.... guess not.

Did you just challenge me on the contents of the book of Genesis when it's obvious you haven't read it yourself? Still confused you say? Here's some help from Genesis:

xxxiv 1 The devil said: 'I do not suffer thee to till the field, except thou write the bond that thou art mine.' Adam replied: 'Whosoever is lord of
2 the earth, to the same do I (belong) and my children.' Then the devil was overcome with joy. (But Adam was not ignorant that the Lord
3 would descend on earth and tread the devil under foot.) The devil said: 'Write me thy
4 bond.' And Adam wrote: 'Who is lord of the earth, to the same do I belong and my children.'

xxxv 1 Eve said to Adam, 'Rise up, my lord, let us pray to God in this cause that He set us free from that devil, for thou art in this strait on my account.'

But Adam said: 'Eve, since thou repentest of
2 thy misdeed, my heart will hearken to thee, for the Lord created thee out of my ribs. Let us fast forty days perchance the Lord will have pity on us and will leave us understanding and life.' I, for my part, said: 'Do thou, (my) lord,
3 fast forty days, but I will fast forty-four.'

Thanks,

- George

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Grant

The fact that the Bible doesn't mention dinosaurs doesn't mean it claims they don't exist.
Neandrathal man: Ape-like creatures. I'm sure they'll be digging up ape-like fossils from our time too. That doesnt' mean we don't exist.
Cave drawings- I have a picture on my wall. Does that mean that its my highest level of communication? We have no reason to blieve that wasn't just a game the kids were playing.
The Bible hasn't changed at all. You can go to the store and buy a Hebrew Bible (Probably not in America bue elsewhere) and it will have the same message as the oldest Bible ever found. Google " Dead Sea Scrolls "... There's no change.

Justin

I think the idea of looking at the Bible as accurate history is flawed in itself. History as we think of it is a fairly recent intellectual revolution, so trying to fit the Bible into a modern history mold would require you to basically have God forcing the writers to write in a certain way. To the ancient Jews, "history" was about telling a story and getting across a point, not about giving information with as much accuracy as possible.

2 Chr. 22:2 says something that is not only not true, but something that is not even possible: "Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he became king". This is not possible because it would make him older than his Father (cf 2 Chr. 21:20-22:2). 2 Kings 8:26 got it right when it says that "Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king". As an interesting aside, the Greek Septuagint (which is what the New Testament writers and early Church quoted from most of the time) has a different reading than the Hebrew, but also makes an error, saying that Ahaziah is either 22 or 20 years old, depending on which verse you look at. I have brought this up on a few different forums, but I haven't seen an explanation yet showing how both passages can simultaneously be factual.

In the end, I don't think it should matter. It only matters if you accept the Bible as being inerrant, something that contains a completely factual historical record.

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}SoC{Sumguy

i thought that it was common knowledge that much of the Old Testament are cultural Semitic myths used to convey meaning and morals. You didn't know that?


Oh, yeah, cuz the Church is SO powerful. If the Archbishop of Cantebury tells me to do stuff i wont hesitate about it at all! in fact, i never decide what to do based on my own morals and judgment! puhleez, you are just being silly.

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Grant

for roman catholics, religion is very controlling. extremely shady in their past. its hard for me to let myself be associated with them considering their past and rituals practiced today. thats another subject though.

the statement that "The bible is but one facet or function of that tool." isnt really supported any way besides opinion though.

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Sandram75

I learned from my senior year psychology teacher that he thought the Bible was the only book that has been around for 2000 years. Does anyone know if there are any other books that lasted this long?

Also, the Bible is about faith which is an intangible. If science could prove/disprove the Bible then we wouldn't need to have faith in anything would we?

I'm guessing that after 2000 years some of the original text has either been accidentally misprinted or purposely (by the Catholic church of course). Just from seeing numerous posts at forums with mispelling, foreign grammar, and just plain opinionated comments, I would have reason to believe that there are some errors/flaws in this book[Bible].

The truth of the matter is that GOD really does exist. He is omnimpotent, the beginning and the end and without God we would not be here having this discussion.

He is risen!

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SithLord

Oh OK we should believe in a book of stories as if they were real because it's an old book of stories

Cult leaders use "faith" to control people every day. Faith is intangible because the people that use it to control people need it to be. Faith is an excuse to explain away any inconsistencies in the bible or any religion in general. What a swiss army knife eh?

But "faith" causes you to still believe in it anyway

Non-Believer: "Hey don't walk over there, there's a big hole and you'll fall in. It's right in front of your eyes!"

Believer: No it doesn't matter what I see, faith tells me I can walk over it so it must be true.

Prove it....