"the bible and it's many flaws" - Page 17

revpo · 02-18-2007, 06:23 PM

The bible is a somewhat shaken history book whereas the truths and facts are not in context from each author<who can remember hundreds of years or so on the facts>, read how the many books of the bible were thrown out and destroyed by the order of the Nicene council.
Read T. Paine's..THE AGE OF REASON he points out some good facts....
REVPO

revpo · 02-18-2007, 06:25 PM

The bible is a somewhat shaken history book whereas the truths and facts are not in context from each author<who can remember hundreds of years or so on the facts>, read how the many books of the bible were thrown out and destroyed by the order of the Nicene council.
Read T. Paine's..THE AGE OF REASON he points out some good facts....
REVPO

MJ · 02-23-2007, 08:16 PM

Hello - this my first comment.
Why am I here? Over the last month, I've been asking loads of questions about the Bible - which has been pretty tough to work through, since I have never doubted it's authority before. I have also been wondering about prayer. So, I just wanted to read what arguments are out there, as I grind through what I believe about life. I did find a very helpful site,
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/
They really seem to back up their arguments with solid thought and research.
Look forward to reading more.

MartheGod · 03-22-2007, 12:32 AM

No offense, but comments like yours scare me. It makes me think that you don't believe that people are responsible for their own actions. Satan has nothing to do with anything. If I decide to off my parents tonight, it has nothing to do with Satan. It is me and my mental illness. (I'm not serious, by the way. Pleae don't call the police and send them to my dorm.

) PEOPLE do things. Not Satan. Take responsibility for your own actions. Don't blame them on creatures that may or may not exist. Why is Satan always the scapegoat? I've noticed that God doesn't do crap. He doesn't stop people from getting beaten or raped. He doesn't feed starving children. In the Bible, it says that God answers prayers. Well, that is a sick and twisted lie because no matter how much or how hard unfortunate people pray, God does not do anything. He does not even acknowledge himself. How exactly is Satan the bad one again? I think it's far worse for the "good guy" to ignore his followers than for Satan, the "bad guy," to tempt people.

Just because we can speak doesn't prove that God exists. What about the Gods of other religions? How do you know that THEY weren't the ones who created us and gave us the ability to talk? Isn't it possible that NO ONE created us and we are just lucky for that little spark of life billions of years ago? Oh, I think. Unfortunately, you can't think and you use everything to justify your own set of beliefs without looking at things from a different point of view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

Now that was more clear. But however, Satan does have everything to do with it. Because why when we want to do anything good, are we driven to do evil. And if we don't we keep getting pushed harder. But to do good is hard, because God does not force it.

It is alot easier to hit someone when you are angry than to hold it back, it is alot easier to steal than work honestly, it is alot easier to hoard all our money to ourselves than give it to others.

I find it funny when people say they don't belive in God and still talk. Yes, I said talk. Because me and you conversing as well as everything else is proof of god. You can't tell me that everyone created over 100 complex languages and to communicate with eachother on our own. God gave us our ability to communicate. To understand eachother, to speak. That is part of what our mouths were made for...

This is something not man people tihkn about because they do it so much. They don't really think about how they can do it.

Faith · 03-22-2007, 01:38 AM

People are responsible for their own actions. Satan however, is quite capable of influencing people to do evil. His influence is obviously strong. After all the miracles which God had performed in the audience of the Israelites they repeatedly complained and said, "Why did we ever leave Egypt. The Lord brought us out here so we could die in the desert." They complained about many things. But even as Moses was on the hill with the Lord, the people asked Aaron, God's chosen priest, to make them a god who could lead them. So he told them to put their jewlery in the fire and he made a golden calf out of it and proclaimed, "This is the god which lead you out of Egypt" and they all bowed down to worship it. People have in history worshipped the very nets they fished with because of how many fish they were catching.

You are either with God, or against him. If you are not for God, you are with Satan, because Satans plan is too keep people from God and is against everything God stands for.

MJ · 03-23-2007, 07:31 AM

It's a tough one; Biblically understanding Satan. First of all, I do wonder how from a perfect and Holy God, an evil being could have developed (I'll get back to that). Also, the New Testament seems to imply that Christ stripped him of his authority through the cross. But, then Peter states that he (the devil) is ike a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour!" So, I'm more apt to believe that Christ's stripping was more like a what one boxer does to another - strips them of their belt. However, they can still box - but just not as the champion. So, Peter's advice to keep a look out for an attack - must be relevant to us.
For those who do not believe, c'mon... is a spiritual realm that far-fetched?
There is too much out there connected to evil and good - beyond the natural.
Back to the question, how did bad fruit come from a good tree? I've come to accept that my human brain cannot comprehend this mystery and instead of letting it de-rail my faith - I choose to accept that what God made was all good, but the choice of pride and rebellion created the evil that exists today.

lauraclay · 03-23-2007, 02:12 PM

Wiki:

Quote:

Satan in Mainstream Christianity
Main article: Devil in Christianity
In mainstream Christianity's understanding of the holy Hebrew scriptures, the Torah, Satan is a synonym for the Devil. He is believed to be an angel who rebelled against God— and also the one who spoke through the serpent and seduced Eve into disobeying God's command. His ultimate goal is to lead people away from the love of God — to lead them to fallacies which God opposes. Satan is also identified as the accuser of Job, the tempter of the Gospels, the secret power of lawlessness in 2 Thessalonians 2:7, and the dragon in the Book of Revelation. Before his insurrection, Satan was the highest of all angels and the "brightest in the sky." His pride is considered a reason why he would not bow to God as all other angels did, but sought to rule heaven himself. In Christianity he is called "the ruler of the demons" (Matt. 12:24); "the ruler of the world" and even "the god of this world." (2Cor. 4:4). The Book of Revelation describes how Satan will be cast out of Heaven, down to the earth, having "great anger" and waging war against "those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus". Ultimately, Satan is thrown forever into the "lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10), not as ruler, but as one among many, being treated no different than all the others who have been cast there as well.

God didn't create him as evil. He went astray. Much like man can....

lauraclay · 03-23-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faith

You are either with God, or against him. If you are not for God, you are with Satan, because Satans plan is too keep people from God and is against everything God stands for.

But doesn't Satan want to keep people against God to win them over for himself? If you aren't for Satan, if you aren't inherently evil, why can't you be neutral. I don't think God would be so picky. There is a difference between being against God and questioning him. I think God would appreciate people questioning things, if they came to the right conclusion. To never question anything is ignorant. I don't believe you can have true faith if you've never even explored any other options. Until you've shunned other possibilities, how can you truly align yourself with one?

jaej · 03-24-2007, 11:04 AM

Faith, am I correct in assuming you believe in absolute truth? Because only someone who believed in absolute truth would believe in a God with such ridiculous dogma. If you're not for him, you're against him? This is one of the primary reasons I cannot in good conscience subscribe to a religion in which people who have never heard the name of your god go straight to hell.

Don't take this to mean I don't believe in absolute truth; I do, to an extent, just as everyone does. 1 plus 1 will always equal 2. No exceptions. It's just things like eternal damnation that turn me away. And if your god is so loving and wants everyone in heaven, why doesn't he just come here and proclaim it?

As far as god being able to create evil things, didn't he create the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? If nothing evil could come from god, why would he create an opportunity for man to know evil? Why tempt him? I think god is perfectly capable of creating evil.

lauraclay · 03-24-2007, 11:44 AM

If the heathens in the middle of Africa have never heard of Jesus, do they go to hell? If it's the Christian's responsibility to convert them, what about all the ones they didn't get to in time? Why did God only proclaim himself to one area of the world?