Faith

I never asked myself cause God tells us many times. Although I have asked myself, "Why do I deserve that?" You do not AS USUAL, take the time to understand the meaning of sacrifice. Note 3 things which all show why God did this. "The life is in the blood" "The only way anyone can get to the father is through me" And don't you remember when Jesus said that what better sacrifice then for a friend to give his life for another?

And when Jesus said, listen closely, "Then he took a piece of bread, gave thanks to God, and broke it, and gave it to them saying, 'This is my body, broken for you. Do this in memory of me.' In the same way, he gave them the cup after the supper, saying, 'This cup is God's new covenant sealed with my blood, which is poured out for you.' "

If you read the Bible and took the time to understand, you would know the meaning of sacrifice, and why Jesus came to die for us.

Og

Heh.. oh man. I bet you're one of those same people that would say that it's ok for a parent to toss their child in an alley too.. Or to smoke crack while they're pregnant. You'd say that a parent has no responsibility for their creation.

I get it. Your self destructive attitude is a HORRIBLE example for society. This power structure built on guilt and self destruction is sickening and it's why I will fight against the EVIL that you represent faith.

I know a much more beautiful world than the one you've been brainwashed into. I know a beautiful world that is without sin. A beautiful world that has transcended the dump you seem to live in. And yeah.. They're the same world.

Even with all of the horrors that go on in the world. Even in the face of the evil that exists. I still know of a world without sin. And I still see what the creator meant when he said "and it was good."

I sit in the garden of eden with many others. You are still outside the walls screaming and crying and railing against your experience. But from where I sit, there is no outside or inside to the garden. All you need to do is open your eyes. You'll see you were there all along.

This is enlightenment. It's what the Buddha and Jesus experienced. Many people have made the realization. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil also set the 2 cherubs at the gate of eden and also set a boundary between the outside and inside.

And they're all within your mind only. It's so terribly unfortunate that you (and so many others) continue down this sad sad sad path. But hey. It is what it is.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

mister_lister

Faith;

So you have never asked the question "why does God need to spill blood to be satisfied?". It has never dawned on you? You just read the bible and don't think things through for yourself is what you are telling me.

I was a Fundementalist Christian for 18 years. You do not need to paraphrase the Bible to me. I became a Christian at 15 years old and was one until 33-34 , I am 38 now. I was not nomnial Christian. I was hardcore. So, I completely understand where you are coming from and why you are doing what you are doing. I expect nothing less from a Christian than to spread the Gospel, it was commanded by Christ. So unlike the others here I understand. Think of me as the polar opposite of Paul. I was a Christian of Christians and now I am a total and complete AGNOSTIC.

What I do not understand, what eludes me, is how for 18 years and now reading your posts- how a person can be so blinded and gulible as to believe a total fabrication (and flawed I might add) work such as the Bible and the Christian Faith. Now it reminds me of Nazi Germany and the faith that people had in Hitler. I tell you why, because if you REALLY READ the Bible and be just a little bit OBJECTIVE (put aside personal experience) the God of the Bible is a TOTAL TYRANT. The God of the Bible is TWO FACED. He is described as Merciful, yet he punishes people eternally for temporal sins or a lack of faith.

My friend, you do not know the book you so highly prize. I bet you think it is mysterious, that you need the Holy Spirit to properly interpret it. It is not all that. If you would sit down and read that book, books at a time instead of verses or sections you like, and approach it with the same level of skepticism that you are right now reading this, I can't imagine you coming away with any other impression than what I finally came to : it is a work of fiction - the god of the bible is impossible because He is CONTRADICTORY.

What I realize is that I will not change your mind. You are like a suicide bomber in Islam. You are a fanatic as I once was. Perhaps one day you will wake up from your sleep or you will die in it. I am through arguing with you. Jesus said "seek and ye shall find". I guess you have found your precious "answer". You will not change unless you need too, like I did.

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"The trouble is not with what we don't know, it is with what we think we know that just ain't so". ~ Mark Twain

MartheGod

Just because he can send me to Hell doesn't mean he has the RIGHT to. Don't get it twisted. I can kill someone, but that doesn't mean I have the RIGHT to. Low self-esteem much? "I deserve to go to Hell. I deserve punishment." No you don't! Let me repeat this one more time: God created us, right? This means he created everything that he is against. The way we are is GOD'S FAULT, not ours. I don't deserve punishment because God has impossible standards. Yes, impossible standards. Since NO ONE ON THE PLANET can't not sin, God has impossible standards. He says we should be in Hell because we are alive. That is the most disturbing **** on the planet. I don't care if he did create me. I don't deserve to be hated for being created. You are like the abused child of an abusive mother. You actually believe your mother is right about you. You actually believe that you deserve to be hated. That you deserve to be beaten. That's wrong. I cannot worship him. If God sends me to Hell, **** him. Seriously. Even if Heaven is better, I wouldn't want to be near such a narcissistic psychopath.

Faith, this isn't an insult, but you have a hard time looking at things from another point of view. It appears to be impossible. You are so deeply entrenched in your beliefs that you refuse to even think about them or question them. As you've indicated, you know many people never or do not know of God. So, how can you assume that if you didn't know of Christianity you'd know of God? The only way people know of Christianity and God is because of missionaries. This means that people don't "naturally" believe in God. Faith, you've lived in America, right? That means you heard of Christianity and God. Everyone living in America has. It would be understandable if you lived somewhere in a jungle or something and you always believed in God. But since you didn't, your belief in God was not "naturally" inside you. I'm not saying that God isn't real because I don't know. All I'm saying is that you believing in God wasn't something that just popped in your head one day. While your father did not hurt you (Thank God. I'm glad you are okay and well), ask yourself why God would put you in that situation anyway. That's cruel. I just realized that I've used the abusive family situation analogy often. I'll stop using that.

"but of course, God hates me enough to choose me and accept me to be his servant" You just admitted that God hates you. If God says that you deserve to be tortured for being alive, God hates you. If God says that a good person deserves to be punished forever for not believing himself even though he has not made himself know to humans, God hates you. The way you describe God does not make me think about love or compassion. Your God truly scares me. Faith, you are not a wretch. Don't ever believe that.

God is not all-loving. That is a lie, Faith. I refuse to believe a loving being could even imagine torturing someone, let alone torturing some forever. In all honesty, God does allow everyone to do what they want. That's why people are murdered, beaten, and raped. He does not stop anything. God only punishes people after they are dead, when they can't do anything. So, your "should God let everyone do whatever they want" comment doesn't make sense. Faith, think for a second: All-loving. That is person is so full of love that it is impossible for us humans to even fathom that type of love. Humans are the sick ones who believe in torturing someone. If God is all-loving, he is beyond punishment. He is beyond hatred. That isn't foolish. To humans, it is, but that's because it's beyond what we can even imagine. That's what "all-loving" is. An "all-loving" God would not believe in revenge. The God could not even fathom revenge or anger. Quit calling him "loving." He is as loving as a sociopath.

Faith

Doubt, leads to misunderstanding, and misunderstanding, leads to doubt.

Satan's favourite tool.

Geshtinnanna

No. Doubts lead to thinking. When was thinking such a sin?

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Faith

Doubt leads to misunderstanding of the truth. Doubt bring upon us blaspheme, and when was blaspheme not a sin?

Geshtinnanna

How can doubt which leads to questions which leads to a better understanding of the truth be bad? Plus as I am not a Christian, I do not believe in sin.

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Faith

Doubt leads to no better understanding, but a corruption of the truth. Corruption of the truth is blaspheme, and gives no knowledge.

Not believing in sin means you don't believe in the knowledge that God has given you. The knowledge of right and wrong. Sin, is disobedience to God's command, and sin is wrong.

Geshtinnanna

Please refrain from telling me what I think is right and wrong. I have thorough knowledge of those concepts. I was raped as a child. I do not believe in sin. I do not believe in evil. I do believe in people who are criminals and deserving to forfeit their right to life on this little planet.

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