pohto9

I have been a Christian my whole life, but I am also a very sceptical person. I do believe in everything the Bible says, but every once in awhile, some little thought will creep in like if God made Adam and Eve, they had two son's which one was killed by the other, and they later had another son, then where did everyone else come from? That is just one example. The Bible leaves a lot out, and we are asked to believe on blind faith. At the end of the day I always come back around to just putting my trust in God, but do any of you ever get those thoughts as well?

lemmex

Actually the original word used for Adam was ha-adam which meant mankind. The use of Adam isn't really correct, it's more correct to think mankind. I wish we wouldn't continue to persue the one man one woman theme but that's the problem we lose with retranslation and good intentions. Of course the reason we have to have the Adam and Eve person senerio is the "fruit thing" else mankind would be just fine. The original meaning of the story was something else.

Regarding the story of Cain (Kayin) and Abel (Hebel). Again, the meaning depends from the point of view you read it from, comtempary (Western) or traditional (Original) view. Just accept what it means is determined by your teaching. Teaching is what they're trying to say, the moral behind it. if you agree with the moral then you are fine. however, you can't agree with both views. Remember there is more then one level here.

And very true the Bible leaves a lot out. But this nothing new. Keep in mind the (intended) audience who the Bible was written for you and in what time. The audience have known the stories and been familar with the ideas behind the stories. They simply have a background you don't. That job today has been taken over by religious authority who is suppose to know this. To me this is a matter of trust then.

Just remember there's a lot of truth (hidden and obvious), exaggeration which is suppose to be symbolizm (saying one thing to mean something else), and mulitple interpretations of everything the Bible has to say. Don't worry, you'll do just fine. Ask 2 preaches and you get 2 different answers, so you're in good company.

MickinEngland

Our weak human minds can't take everything on board, and the bible doesn't try to pretend otherwise -
Jesus said:-"You hardly believe me when I tell you earthly things,so how would you believe me if I told you heavenly things?.....You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world" John 3:12,John 8:23)
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord" (Isaiah 55:8 )

That's why Jesus used so many parables to try to get his message across -
The Parables of Jesus

George

The whole you are from below and I from above thing might have been believable back before we reached the heavens and beyond. It might have made sense back when we believed God and heaven were in the clouds. Before we studied the clouds and now know what they are and even what they are made of. Now we've reached space and have st foot on the moon and landed rovers on other planets.

Now... heaven being in the "heavans" kinda doesn't make sense.

Wouldn't you agree?

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MickinEngland

A word is just a word and we shouldn't read too much into it.
For example if Jesus had said - "I'm from a non-material dimension in the space-time continuum where a permanent state of pure bliss and happiness permanently exists, and I want you to be there with me too", people would have put him in a straitjacket, so he said it like this instead -

"In my fathers heavenly kingdom are many mansions,I'm going on ahead to get them ready for you,then return to take you there with me" (John 14:2-6)

Og

Heh.. Unfortunately, christians do tend to have this self destructive view of themselves. Thinking they're full of sin and unable to handle the glory of reality... It's a pretty defeatist attitude and has always seemed pretty depressing to me.

The idea is pretty much absent in eastern thought. The enlightened masters teach their students using similar quotes as those above, attributed to jesus. But they don't mean that their students are limited... Just not at a certain place yet in their mental/psychological/spiritual being.

Every time I see buddhist monks portrayed in western media it seems that they're professing some bizarre parable or allegory. Doesn't mean that they're saying you can't find enlightenment. They're just saying it's hard to describe so the stories they offer are simply vehicles to the divine.

The concept of original sin doesn't exist in eastern cultures. Those spiritualities tend to be in contact and at harmony with nature vs western cultures where we're cast out of the garden to subdue and be at odds with nature.

Guess my point is that I think it's unfortunate that so many people have such a low view of the capacity of humanity. That, and that they need to take something like the bible as concrete instead of rife with metaphor and other means to teach about the human condition.

MickinEngland

Even Jesus got fed up of his fans going over the top with hero-worship, so he had to remind them -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
He knew his human half was far from perfect, so how much more imperfect therefore must we full-humans be.. ;)

However the bible also reminds us that anybody can improve themself if they want to, so there's hope for us all yet -"He raises the poor from the dust, and lifts the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes and let them inherit the throne of glory" (1 Sam 2:8 KJV )


And of course, remember Jesus said the greatest man ever to be born was his cousin John, a scruffy hippy-type living out in the wilderness dressed in rags, eating locusts and wild honey -" I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist" (Matt 11:11)

Og

"I and the Father are One."
John 10:30

Unfortunately, these gospels weren't meant to be put next to each other for comparison so these kind of quotes don't really mean much. Each gospel author had a different view of this stuff.

Then there's the gnostic "Gospel of Thomas" verse 108

Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed"

Also (verse 106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away."

We really are all the ones that make these stories and poems and myths. They point to the eternal. The story of the fall and being at disharmony with nature is just a metaphor for the duality of everything in the universe, pairs of opposites. Male, female, good, evil, etc.. Life and death. That's why the other tree is the tree of eternal life. The fruit of that tree is the way back into eden. It's pointing at the spiritual existence. It's not life everlasting. It's eternal life.. Spiritual life that transcends all things.

Sin is a silly concept in my opinion. For one thing, it's not "good or evil." There's no way that people ignorant of good or evil could commit a good or evil act. They were not moral agents until they ate of the tree. But that's just logic applied to the concrete images.

It symbolizes life as pairs of opposites everywhere. Good/evil etc. Spiritual awakening creates a union of all opposites and then you achieve eternal life right now and become one with the Brahman.

We are not inherently sinful. Even jesus saw the innocence of children and all babies are born as buddhas in the east. It is only by the experience of life and our cultural experience of the pairs of opposites that we are disconnected from the fruit of that other tree (eternal life) which is what jesus came to show us how to reach (and buddha and lots of folks across the millenia and throughout the mythologies).

Lyricb

Do I ever have my doubts? Sure. My brother-in-law tried to engage me in an argument about if there is actually a God or not. You know, he can pull out all the scientific stuff he wants, but when I look in the eyes of my children I know there is a God.

Stephanie2377

As for doubts.. if I do, they are fleeting. I never ever question if God exists. That belief is so true and steadfast that I have no question about it. The only doubts I ever have are more like wonderings on how it all came about.

Then, I realize... it is not my place to ask all of these questions. My belief in God is enough. If I believe, I have faith. My mind wasn't designed to fully understand how it all came to be.

This is how it is for me, at least.