AB517

depends, what are we having for dinner?

Abel

I've given you evidence. Just because you don't like what I presented does not mean I am required to give you more. It is not circular reasoning. I have given Biblical prophecy that has been validated by secular history. I do not have to prove anything to you actually. That is why the Bible says we are saved by faith. We are not saved by science.

If you require scientific evidence then there is nothing I can do for you. When you stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgment, make your complaint to Him. God will remind you that all the evidence for salvation was there and you will have no excuse: Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

I do quote scripture, and I will always quote scripture to support my stance. If you don't like it, that's just too bad. I make no apologies for that.

Now, scientifically prove to me that Jesus' prophecy concerning the Temple was not an actual prophecy.

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God loves you and I'm trying.

jimmy77611

Once again you prove nothing. Quoting scripture proves nothing. As far as your challenge to me, the burden of proof is on you. You're the one making fantastic claims. My belief is that no one knows the truth about life after death.

xexon

Wrong person to ask.

I've been a vegetarian for over 25 years now. No meat, fish, or eggs.

Outside of starvation, I'll never go back.


x

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Destroyer of Worlds

debdodd

Good answer Jim ... Abel never does prove anything ... the bible is the only documentation he needs or uses to "prove" what he believes. If it's not in the bible or forbid it contradict the bible ... forget it ... then the contradictory text is wrong .... he readily admits that the bible and only the bible is his manifesto of truth ... he wants no clarification of it as it is perfectly clear to him .... as you said .... no one knows the truth until we're dead. He is convinced that it is a gamble he doesn't want to take and so be it ..... kind of redundant with him quoting and saying the same old stuff all the time but hey, we reply to him so we shouldn't be surprised when he gives us the same lame answers ... just my opinion ....

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"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

Astreja

As I said earlier in this thread, if a "prophesy" is within the means of humans to fulfill by their own deliberate actions, it is not a supernatural prediction of future events but a suggestion for someone to do whatever the "prophesy" requires.

Then I guess there's nothing you can do for us.
Argumentum ad baculum, a logical fallacy. No evidence that your god exists.
But that's just it, Abel -- It doesn't, in fact, support your stance.
Building a temple, destroying it, turning the entrance to face south-by-southwest, or painting it bright pink with blue racing stripes are all things that humans are quite capable of doing without outside assistance. Furthermore, the specific words of this so-called prophesy might inspire various individuals to eventually perform the necessary actions to make it a reality. This makes it neither supernatural nor particularly prescient; therefore, it is not a prophesy. Q.E.D.

You might have a case if a prophesy had said something like 'In the year 2008 of the Common Era, a titanium-hulled spaceship from the Pleiades star system will deliver three fifty-kilogram bags of technologically advanced cat litter to Astreja's house in Winnipeg, teleporting the bags directly into the basement via a wormhole-producing tractor beam.'

And only if you could prove that no one with prior knowledge of the prophesy had actually placed an order for 330 pounds of cat litter... Because that would negate the prophetic nature of the event as well.

For the most part, prophesy has very little practical value. It seems to serve more as a rallying cry for believers rather than a bona fide proof of a supernatural agent.

(checks basement for extraterrestrial cat litter, Just In Case)

Composer

The very fact you admit checking after everything you said against it, reveals you are not certain that what you said is so?

You speak with a forked tongue!

Astreja

??? I never said it *was* a prophesy.

But I have eight cats and would cheerfully accept three bags of litter, prophesy or no. Even if it came from the Orion Nebula instead of the Pleiades. Even if my describing the scenario somehow triggered an cat litter delivery on the part of benevolent telepathic aliens.

The whole point of my rant is this: If *we* can make something happen, can it rightfully be called a prophesy at all? And even if something happens without human intervention, it doesn't necessarily point to any particular causative being. Perhaps the prophet has the ability to see the future under his own power, without a god whispering in his ear.

Composer

Funny how all these Bible haters spend so much energy on trying to disprove something they don't believe in, but regardless it has stood intense scrutiny for centuries and still prevails?

NotConvinced

True, but I could flip it around and say "funny how all these Bible thumpers spend so much time trying to prove something they already believe in."
And as far as withstanding scrutiny..... How can you truly disprove something. Anytime someone thinks they're close to successfully disproving God or something of his nature, the goal post seems to move, and possibly another portion of scripture is no longer taken literally as it was before. In time, will any of the Bible be taken literally?

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Everything you think you thought, the water's gone...every drop.