The Great Fabrication - Page 5

tommi atkins · 01-12-2008, 02:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Astral

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommi atkins

No objection as I say.

The discussion is wether the bible is fabrication and a social control tool or the literal or inspired word of god.

Would the Bible have to be a fabrication as a requirement for it to be used to control people?

.

No, but if it was the word of god, then it changes the focus of the control.

A Fabrication simply is the ancients realising that they cant keep everyone in check all of the time. They need , in order to provide some framework to civilisation, a sword of damacles to hang permenatly above everyones head. A 24/7 worldwide -thought tapping- instant punishment system, which is judge jury and excecutioner. This can only be provided by technology at some point in the future or by "God".
This explaination leaves us with the possibility that somewhere there is a true God , who may be perfect, merciful, just and loves us.

A Non-fabricated word of god means that God takes a very real interest in controlling us. The commandments were "Thou Shalt not", not "Hey guys, if it meshes with your plans , id really like you not to covert your neighbours ass, ok?" God by his literal word is giving us laws and rules to live by. In this case his social control is perfectly acceptable ....to him....and to many others. Why question God!
Well basically because God, by his actions and thoughts described, is a raving lunatic and we have outgrown him.

**Jacob** · 01-12-2008, 09:42 AM

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Originally Posted by shaun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob

If you are right, then it seems to me that the translators of biblical scripture were hardly divinely inspired.

No one has claimed the translators are divinely inspired. Who told you that?

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In any case, the post was meant to point out the lies that authority often expects others to believe.

Wow, nice ad hominem attack. What authority do you have to cast stones?

If we're going to carry a respectable conversation here about very important matters, then I would ask you at least be mature about it and not throw around baseless claims that attack people's character.

Your character wasn't under attack. This is so typical. When a christian's beliefs are questioned, the challenger often gets unjustly chastised. It seems that the present U.S. government works that way too.

In regards to my post:

If the translators of biblical scripture can't get right what was originally written, then what motive would anyone have to believe it hook, line and sinker?

Jacob

Telimaktar · 01-12-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

If the translators of biblical scripture can't get right what was originally written, then what motive would anyone have to believe it hook, line and sinker?

Old translation (Old as in very recent):
I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7

Current:
I make peace and create calamity. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7

Two quite different meanings. If this is just one case imagine how many others there have been that completely change the meanings.

tommi atkins · 01-13-2008, 02:41 AM

Either of those statements reveals a God who is so powerful that he overpowers the free will he gave us to Himself create evil and "do" peace.

Hang on a sec!

**Jacob** · 01-13-2008, 12:31 PM

My original post on this thread (#28), was an attempt to compare the fabled unicorn with the official account of what happened on 9/11, 2001 as being examples of nonsense given by authority. Check out www.911truth.org to find out what many really think happened on Sep. 11, 2001.

As for the verse in Leviticus concerning rabbits chewing their cud, Shaun suggests, without any proof I might add, that the original text may have meant something different. This does nothing to convince me that this verse has any merit.

Jacob

tommi atkins · 01-14-2008, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob

My original post on this thread (#28), was an attempt to compare the fabled unicorn with the official account of what happened on 9/11, 2001 as being examples of nonsense given by authority. Check out www.911truth.org to find out what many really think happened on Sep. 11, 2001.

Jacob

I'm a firm beleiver in the system failed on 9/11, pretty much as any system would do faced with such an incident. I had a look at that site, wrapped my head in several sheets of bacofoil and picked out a fact at random.
WTC7 collapsing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

So the site organisers and the people who beleive the towers went down by explosives diddnt even bother to research any facts?

Then I took another "reason to be nuts", Phones at 30000 feet...did they work at that in 2001? Yes they did, I myself have made dozens of calls. So the conspiracy fruitloop and anyone who follows him just grab wildly at incredibly stupid straws hoping upon hope that somehow mobile phones diddnt work like that then, and all the victims relatives and tape recordings of the victims are all hoaxes.

Why am i ranting about this? Well because as agnostics, to beleive in this tinfoil mindvomit, without doing some basic research and with no basis at all other than ignorance is frankly as bad as being a theist. In fact its worse.

**Jacob** · 01-14-2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommi atkins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob

My original post on this thread (#28), was an attempt to compare the fabled unicorn with the official account of what happened on 9/11, 2001 as being examples of nonsense given by authority. Check out www.911truth.org to find out what many really think happened on Sep. 11, 2001.

Jacob

I'm a firm beleiver in the system failed on 9/11, pretty much as any system would do faced with such an incident. I had a look at that site, wrapped my head in several sheets of bacofoil and picked out a fact at random.
WTC7 collapsing.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

So the site organisers and the people who beleive the towers went down by explosives diddnt even bother to research any facts?

Then I took another "reason to be nuts", Phones at 30000 feet...did they work at that in 2001? Yes they did, I myself have made dozens of calls. So the conspiracy fruitloop and anyone who follows him just grab wildly at incredibly stupid straws hoping upon hope that somehow mobile phones diddnt work like that then, and all the victims relatives and tape recordings of the victims are all hoaxes.

Why am i ranting about this? Well because as agnostics, to beleive in this tinfoil mindvomit, without doing some basic research and with no basis at all other than ignorance is frankly as bad as being a theist. In fact its worse.

Your post clearly shows that the influence Big Brother has on us is as powerful today as it was when God supposedly introduced himself as fire atop a mountain. Wow.

Jacob

**Jacob** · 01-14-2008, 09:29 AM

tommi atkins,

As a result of the 9/11 events, three buildings collapsed in NYC. They all fell in an identical manner. The third building that fell wasn't even hit by a plane. Does this really seem logical to you?

Jacob

shaun · 01-14-2008, 10:24 AM

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Originally Posted by Jacob

Your character wasn't under attack.

How do you know? You made a wide-sweeping ad hominem attack against all Christians in positional authority; of which I do participate, so therefore, you were attacking me.

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This is so typical. When a christian's beliefs are questioned, the challenger often gets unjustly chastised.

Dude, take off the tinfoil hat. You did employ a personal attack. I told you to show how your argument was not based on reason, but on personal motives and attacks. Instead of getting defensive about it, move on.

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If the translators of biblical scripture can't get right what was originally written, then what motive would anyone have to believe it hook, line and sinker?

"Cant get it right?" Well, for one, I doubt any Christian makes their belief off of a possible linguistic contextual difference about rabbits and refection. If you're going to make claims, please provide evidence to back them up.

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As for the verse in Leviticus concerning rabbits chewing their cud, Shaun suggests, without any proof I might add,

"Without any proof"? What? I gave you plenty of information and analysis to look up. I have dismissed your objection with factual, textual evidence. I have given you lexicographical references to look up if you so choose. You cannot, however, just "dismiss" them because you don't like the answer. That is being intellectually dishonest.

shaun · 01-14-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telimaktar

Old translation (Old as in very recent):
I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7

Current:
I make peace and create calamity. I the Lord do all these things.
- Isaiah 45:7

Two quite different meanings. If this is just one case imagine how many others there have been that completely change the meanings.

Would you mind posting the exact translations and their sources of each of those quotations, so we can do this right?

Also, please define "calamity" and "evil", as well as making sure to define those in the social context in which they were written. Also, please check the Hebraic words to see if they are used anywhere else in the OT, and then as well make sure that the definitions match the parallel antethesis of "peace".

Once you've done this, then we can have a framework by which to discuss. I'm not being facetious - to prove so, I'll go ahead and tell you that the Hebraic word for "evil/calamity" here is "ra". That should get you started.