Telimaktar

How would you then justify those who follow but do not understand or never even comprehend what they follow nor why.

This is not to say everyone is being controlled but there are a large number of "sheep" that merely go where lead, without question, without reason(that they understand).

Dunno

Explain to me first how you know what is in their heart and their knowledge how do you know if they are followers or leaders? Nobody has to justify a thing to anybody. I'm curious as to where you have obtained this great knowledge that you understand it 100% so that you can justify that they are not following it correctly?

romansh

If I remember correctly
over 20 y ago
Oral Roberts....... send me 13 M$ or god will take me

It took longer than expected but god did not take him.
We are now doomed to have him forever?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Telimaktar

You being extremely defensive.
You might have noticed at the beginning and a later post that I said I am speculating. I have never once claimed any 100% knowledge about anything.

I have personally met people who have explained to me their reason for believing what they do, and while I am no-one to judge that those views be correct or not, it is apparent that their understanding is flawed and/or not in line with the mainstream thinking of othersin the same group.

But again this is how I have seen things from my perspective just as you see things from your own perspective. What proof is there for or against mine or any other claims regarding religion.

But thank you ramansh, those are the type of people I am alluding to.

Dunno

Whoa son, I'm not being defensive. I am not one to put a thousand smilies in my post to indicate mood. You read my post as being defensive. Christians for all I care can go defend themselves. I have a problem though with that way you worded it that anyone who follows Xtianity is blind and sheep like. That is the reason I don't go to Xtian boards is because of this blind judgement But I am not defensive I was just curious

Telimaktar

Okay it seem we both have misunderstood each other. I do seem to have worded myself incorrectly.

Not sure what you mean by the 1000 smilies, wasn't me.

But no I don't mean to indicate that everyone is blindly following but that there are those who do. And no-one would no the number but that wouldn't matter anyway.

It just seems very sad that many join religion for the wrong reasons and follow only never to understand the how or why they do the things they do. And then the gullible fall prey to control in whatever form control might take.

Og

I'm curious if you think that people actually think that ignoring Atlas Shrugged will result in their eternal torture in a firey pit where there is much gnashing of the teeth?

I would tend to think that the bible:

1) places a framework for acceptable behavior
2) defines the source of this framework as infallible and ultimate in all ways (i.e. unquestionable)
3) Offers enticements to follow and punishments for straying

There are many books that do this, including the legal code of the USA and other nations (save that these examples skip step 2). All are a matter of control over people.

Of course there is a component of this in the bible. This is "dog life" stuff though. It's basically the santa claus deal. Be bad = get coal in your stocking. I believe that the bible has a lot of beautiful stuff in it if you look beyond this literal interpretation. It seems to me that it serves a purpose as a control mechanism.

It's like watching the Star Wars movies (the originals). At first, it's an exciting action and fun sci-fi movie and the kids love it. Then you grow into it and you find that it's the same story as that found in the bible of Jesus' life.

There's nothing new about this process. There are enlightened goals out there and ways of presenting them to "control" you such that you start on the path towards them. Then when you appreciate the value of the path, you can transcend the controls.

I think its a beautiful process.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

Dunno

Thats funny that you said Star Wars Og. I was watching Drive Thru a slasher movie a few nights ago where the plot is Spirit kills the Children of the people that killed him when he was a teen except he is still a drive thru clown anyhow I started to think of the Freddy Kruger movies where the kids were killed for the actoins of the parents, then I started to remember something about God visiting the inequities of the Fathers to the children

anyhow it's wierd that you said that when I was thinking somethng along those lines

Og

Yah.. There's many parts in the bible that are good sources for horror movie plots.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

Telimaktar

Haha, good one.

Star Wars is an excellent example I can use here.

The fact that Darth Sidious masterminded the use of the clones years before their appearance. The Jedi find them through some clues left by the Sith lord himself.
And as you know these later end up near causing the extinction if the Jedi.