Gettin' In Tune

Point well taken.

George

Gettin' In Tune,

The profanity rule was set in place because frankly this is a forum meant for intelligent debate and or discussion. As mentioned earlier in this thread profanity is just throw away language and it really would slow down or even take a lot of great conversations way off track unnecessarily.

I'm not anti profanity. I use it in my day to day life offline to be honest.

You should know however, that there are quite a few reasons it's not allowed, a few of which are mentioned above and a few behind the scenes ones.

The old saying give a guy an inch and he'll take a mile applies here as well. I could open up the forum and let everyone curse up a storm but the problem is that there will always be a few bad apples in the bunch that take it too far and ruin it for everyone else. I can't allow profanity for some and not for others so to level the playing field it's not allowed at all.

So to lay the bottom line down for you. This place is not a democracy. There are rules I set up a long time ago and I'm pretty certain the vast majority of the users here agree with them. But in the end I really don't need them to. Rules and guidelines help benefit us all and not allowign profanity defintiely helps keep things in order around here but it also forces us to speak intelligently and really think about what we're saying.

Don't get me wrong though. This is not a dictatorship either..... I lost the right to call this "my community" a long time ago IMO. This is our community and we all pitch in to keep it pleasant for everyone. Just like you donate to support the community by becoming a green member I too donate and pitch in where I can only I tend to donate a bit more than everyone else

Og and The-Anjel help keep things in line and I help them by providing them a rule set to make it easier for them to know where to draw the line. Could you imagine how rough it would be on them to have to run around policing profanity laced tirades? It's a thankless job they do as it is.

Hope you understand, and feel free to reply with any questions and or suggestions you may have.

- George

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duck

Great reply, George.

I look at profanity in this analogy: The community here is like a park. We have different types of everything. The park is a very well ordered and lovely place to hang out with intelligence and thoughtful language that pervades all. Swear words are litter. The more swearing that goes on, the more litter is dropped in the park. It certainly takes away the natural beauty and the orderliness of things. The moderators have more work in picking up the litter than actually being able to do the job of keeping the park healthy and growing in the way it should.

I moderate another type of forum elsewhere on the net. It is an interest forum and the language can get a little salty at times. Many times, interpreting the meaning behind the swear words can be very difficult and knowing when to step in as a mod is a tricky business. I try to set an example by not using profanities on the site as much as possible. I will get off when on a rant over something that bothers me, but generally try to avoid the use. Being a teacher, also, I have to believe that good language leads to good conversation and communication.

Good, formal language leads to civility.

Thanks to this site, I am challenged to put my best foot forward to make a point instead of the gutter language I can hear and take part in at the local saloon.

Gettin' In Tune

Again, as I stated people who use profanity without moderation and intelligence will be ignored or marginalized out of the forum. (Plus you are discriminating against my heritage....another issue).

WTF? Religious fanatics take a marathon when given an inch. Moderators eliminate “hardcore religious freaks” more so than people who use profanity. I am asking for this site to acknowledge my First Amendment Right and not to take place in a marathon of profanity.

Beautiful statement and worthy of another tread. ‘ Democracy is one of the worse form governments, but the best one that we have invented’.

Again, with EMPHASIZM, my issue is not with profanity, but censoring my first amendment rights. Again, if I use profanity abusively, like some religious fanatics abusively use god, then I will be ignored or marginalized out of the group.

Give me a better reason then our first amendment right constructed by our deistic founding fathers, and then I will subscribe to your rule about profanity.

I am not asking to use profanity, I am asking for the censorship to be removed. Why do you believe that this forum will be any less chaotic with profanity than with religious freedom?

I don't mean to be an ass, but feel like I am making an honest statement.

Gettin' In Tune

I agree, but got censored for saying I like to watch "Penn and Teller's: Bullshit" series on Showtime.

Why is 'bullshit' censored?

Og

The first amendment states that the GOVERNMENT will not limit freedom of speech or press and will not establish an official religion. It says absolutely nothing about forum administrators on agnosticforums.com or any other private citizen, for that matter. Agnosticforums.com is not an arm of the US government and is not funded by them.

We are limiting NO first amendment rights. In fact, we wholeheartedly support your first amendment rights. By making the claims you're making about how we are limiting your freedoms and that we should not, you are advocating a limitation of the free expression of the people who administer this forum.

NO ONE is limiting your right to use profanity. You still have that right! Go on and use it (elsewhere obviously, like in your own home)! Doesn't mean there won't be social consequences to your behavior.

This part about music and literature is silly. It makes no sense. We are not censoring ideas. We are creating a specific TONE in this environment. If you want a wild jungle of who shouts the loudest (i.e. your proposal of community defined language) then you're looking in the wrong place

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Og

I'd also like to add that the intimation that we are limiting the freedom of expression of an individual is an INSULT to these forums. It demonstrates an ignorance of the rights which you claim to want to avail yourself of and it insults the forum we are trying to provide (that wouldn't otherwise exist) where ideas can be openly discussed.

It's a perverted notion that we somehow want to limit discussion when the central notion of this forum is one of exploration and discovery.

Would you say we had the right to moderate pornographic posts/adds and random advertisements (unsolicited spam)? Would you say we'd have the right to move posts unrelated to agnosticism to the off topic forum or delete them outright?

I'd imagine that you don't have problems with us deleting spam and banning spam bots. You don't have a problem with us organizing off topic chat into another area when it's not related to a subforum topic.

ALL of these are censorships. But that's the point of a topical forum community! You create a topic subset and a tone. Otherwise it's just a random noise forum and not a community at all. This community exists in order to discuss ideas relating to agnosticism, science, and religion. That's a censorship right there. But what we have is a community that exists BECAUSE of that censorship. It exists because we've limited the topics.

You propose that we allow for all speech to be allowed and then to let some sort of hands off capitalist approach direct the content of the forum. That is what the INTERNET allows.

The notion that we are limiting any freedoms or human rights is ridiculous. In fact, we are the result of freedom of speech... and part of it.

__________________
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The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
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Become Who You Are

Gettin' In Tune

I got a lot out of this conversation. I hope I wasn’t perceived as offense, becuase it was not my intention. Parts of my arguments were emotionally fueled and hyperbole, and for that I apologize.

My main objective argument was that there is difference calling someone a jacka$$, then referring to a jacka$$ as a male donkey. I am not what the difference is between BS and spelling it out.

Anyways, the lesson lI earned was that is much more important for civility and cultivation, then a right to curse. I guess that is why we have the emiticon

Og

Then I'm curious what you did intend when you flat out stated that we are violating your human rights that you feel are central to the freedoms we enjoy in the US?

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Gettin' In Tune

What that statement did was highlight my ignorance of the understanding the First Amendment.

For simplicity sake I am quoting wikipedia, but it emphasizes my thoughts.

"First, there are powerful overlapping arguments for free speech as a basic political principle in any liberal democracy. Second, however, free speech is not a simple and absolute concept but a liberty that is justified by even deeper values. Third, the values implicit in the various justifications for free speech may not apply equally strongly to all kinds of speech in all circumstances."

"Still another explanation is that freedom of speech is integral to tolerance"

"The free speech principle is left with the concern of nothing less than helping to shape "the intellectual character of the society".